2002 Toyota Echo SQ build need advie

[thetaxman]

Hello everyone I have been reading for a while now and figured I would stick my head out to introduce myself before I sought out help on various topics. I have been a car audio fan for 27 years but my last build was in 1995 when Richard Clark reigned.

So anyways, I am going to be commuting a great deal in the next year and so it was a new car now or next year. After debate, we decided for me to drive my car one more year and then hand it over to the kids since they start driving next year. The amp and head unit will leave when I turn the car over to the kids. They will be integrated into the new car which also leaves me thinking I should spend a bit more now on key components to transfer.

The car in question is a 2002 Toyota echo. It will be as budget as possible but SQ will be the highest goal. My budget is around $1500 which will include sound deadening, the big three upgrade, wiring, new HU and low,mid,high, amplifier and possible sub.. Here is where I need the vast knowledge others bring.

I intend to use Pioneer DEH-80 PRS run active three way since this is how all my old cars were. I love the flexibility.

My first issue is this. My doors can handle 6 ½ but my mounting depth is only 2 ¼ inches deep once the window is down. I need suggestions on shallow mount mids that will still do the job of blending with a sub as effortlessly as possible. I originally was looking to run all Dayton speakers but that option seems to have left now that I verified the mounting depth. I see Focal has a set of components ISS 165. Are there other, cheaper options out there that will deliver high quality sound with shallow mounting. I have searched Parts Express and come up empty. Focal has a solid reputation but I do not care as much about name as I do meeting the audio demands, and pricing is still a factor since these speakers will stay with the car and need to be driven off of a HU of my choosing when I get rid of the car so efficiency is important.

My second issue or question is tweeter placement. My car has dash tweeters but these are hitting the windshield and reflecting. I could drop a 4” in the dash and try and make up a bit for the lack of bass from the 6 ½ and throw a tweeter on the door by the A pillar. This will bring the tweeters to a more on axis situation.

This would give me a four way system and the Pioneer HU only does three way. Should I just do the component set and leave the dash speakers alone or should I utilize the space provided?

As far as the sub, I have a good ole Bazooka that someone gave me for building a box for a pair of Punch subs a while back. While not optimal, it will fill the void if necessary. The other thing I was thinking was buying a Dayton 12" and adding a corner box in the trunk. I wish to retain as much trunk as possible.

And lastly there is an amp to consider. I initially was thinking JL XD700.5 but the PPI 900.5 seems to have good reviews and the price is much friendlier. Any thoughts? The amp will move to the new car next year and I want to build around a clean unit. SQ and clarity again are most important. I mostly listen to jazz/rock as well as a few fun bass songs. Mostly clean, clear intelligible music.

I have included pictures of the dash and door for anyone interested. Once I decide on everything I will start a build log.

Photos

Thanks a million for taking the time to read and offer suggestions.

Jeff

Click to read more...

 

[garychoffmann 10+ year member]

The best 5 channels I have used personally are elemental designs, memphis big belle or the often overlooked directed 1100d5 (available in a few other names) cheap class d and sq don't normally go hand in hand but it is often debated. (P900.5)

@ trumpet @myslows10 on cdt shallow 6.5 comps.

Personally, I would consider an ms8. On the factory speakers even. I know sounds like a crazy idea. I heard a rav4 with the ms8 running the factory speakers with a single sundown sa8 on a little sony mono. The car was impressive with it's extension, staging, clarity and it was loud enough to drown out yourself singing along. Made me rethink a lot about my system.

 

[gimling]

For 1 if you want a true 3 way active system your going to need multiple amps. unless im missing something about the speaker wiring on that pioneer its going to be a standard front and rear speaker setup. 3 way active means you have an amp for the subs, an amp for the mids and an amp for the highs, if you want to save money your better off with a piece meal approach, dont buy a component set cause you dont need a passive crossover if your using active. u can buy a 6 in shallow mount woofer set and a tweeter set, as far as the tweeter location given your picture yes you could fit a 4 inch in there but you arent going to get any midbass from it, some vocals but not midbass. that location should be fine for lifting the soundstage with a tweeter. as far as amp with an active system you can get by with a class D for your highs, but with a 5 channel amp to do a true 3 way active crossover your going to have to put all tweets on 2 chanels, all mids on 2 channels and your sub, u can get by with it but you have limited what you can do time correction wise.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

For 1 if you want a true 3 way active system your going to need multiple amps. unless im missing something about the speaker wiring on that pioneer its going to be a standard front and rear speaker setup. 3 way active means you have an amp for the subs, an amp for the mids and an amp for the highs, if you want to save money your better off with a piece meal approach, dont buy a component set cause you dont need a passive crossover if your using active. u can buy a 6 in shallow mount woofer set and a tweeter set, as far as the tweeter location given your picture yes you could fit a 4 inch in there but you arent going to get any midbass from it, some vocals but not midbass. that location should be fine for lifting the soundstage with a tweeter. as far as amp with an active system you can get by with a class D for your highs, but with a 5 channel amp to do a true 3 way active crossover your going to have to put all tweets on 2 chanels, all mids on 2 channels and your sub, u can get by with it but you have limited what you can do time correction wise.

I think he means 2 way plus sub. 3 way active

 

[gimling]

I think he means 2 way plus sub. 3 way active

possibly but still for it to be 3 way using either ppi or the JL you are going to lose control of a fade front to back using 1 amp. unless he is planning on running the rears off the deck,

 

[garychoffmann 10+ year member]

possibly but still for it to be 3 way using either ppi or the JL you are going to lose control of a fade front to back using 1 amp. unless he is planning on running the rears off the deck,

I think he's planning on sq only using the front. Doesn't strike me as a guy who is not knowledgeable. If I was going for sq priority I would delete my rears entirely or run off deck/low power.

 

[thetaxman]

I figured as much on the 4". It was an after thought and was looking for more creative minds than mine to think it was a useful location. Will the stage be more pronounced and wide if I put them in the stock location or like I think, move them to the a-pillar. I will align them prior to mounting but just looking for guidance on best place to start whether the stock location or elsewhere.

I would like to buy individual components but an not sure what my best options were. The Focals simply fit the space. Crutchfield did not yield great results and neither did Parts-Express. I do not wish to pay for a crossover I will not use but I know of no other options. That is what I am seeking suggestions on.

As far as the stock speakers, they were blown and the same guy who gave me the bazooka also gave me the Boston 5 1/4 currently in the door. The right one is blown so replacement is necessary. The stock tweeters do a nice job but it is not precise. It is very clear. This is why I am thinking of moving tweeter location.

 

[thetaxman]

I disconnected the rears a while ago. I currently am using the rear signal for the bazooka. I have no intentions of using the rears. They are the vents for my sub. Rear speakers removed.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Id say keep the stock head unit, Add a JBL ms-8

You can have dash speakers, tweeters and mids all on the ms-8 amp and sound quality will be a lot better than an 80 prs.

 

[garychoffmann 10+ year member]

CDT Audio Regional Dealers ultra slim 6.5

I really believe in a dsp's ability to help bring your soundstage in to focus. The 80prs does have some calibration. Ask noloud4u about his ms8 and I believe he used to run the 80prs. Trumpet is great foe these type of questions as he has hands on experience with many different vehicles

 

[thetaxman]

Well that brings new questions to the mix. My stock unit does not have the ability to interface with external devices. I would like bluetooth for the phone and the ability to add an sd chip with audio files. Am I better off buying ms8 and a cheaper head unit? If the 80prs did not work out how I wanted I was going to leave it with the car and try something else next year with the new car. The Pioneer seemed to meet most of my goals for not alot of money.. Maybe the ms8 is the option. It does add cost though and I still need interface.

 

[thetaxman]

So here is where I stand currently. Got side tracked doing things like installing new doors on the house and studying tax code, all those fun things we all dream about.

Anyways I have compiled the following thus far.

1. Reckhorn 21.5 Sq Ft 80 mil sound deadening. Amazon gift card from Christmas- Free

2. Ultra Touch Radiant Barrier 48" x 24'-Home depot $60

3. Mass Loaded Vinyl 4' x 8'= Home Depot-$30

I intend to treat the doors in the same fashion that KeepHopeAlive did.

So in keeping with my budget, I still need to locate ccf for decoupling as well as acoustical ceiling tile I need for the inside doors. I have tried pretty much every DIY store in a 20 mile radius. I am thinking with the cost of gas I may be better served to order some online. Any suggestions would be appreciated for the remaining items for the doors.

I was looking at this but I am not sure if this is my best Acoustic Sound Damping Foam. If so, how many sheets should I buy. They come 18W x 36L x ¼ thick.

In regards to the speakers that I will be installing in the doors, I have narrowed my choice down to two. Your thoughts please.

Speakers Options for front stagehttp://www.woofersetc.com/c-172-spe...ation-65-2-way-component-speakers-system.html

Focal IS-165 Component Set- $200

CDT EF-61neo Component Set- $300

Subwoofer-

Bazooka 8” 100Watt tube. This is what I currently have. Again, no cost so I like this option.

I also have a Rockford Fosgate P110S4 that I could implement. I would need power since I do not have an amp.

Now for a source unit. I have two options before me. Please offer your thoughts.

Option 1. Order a JBL-MS8, replace a few speakers and sound deaden like mad.

Pro's- Easy to move to a new car and from a SQ standpoint seems to be my quickest way to achieve a high level of clarity.

Cons- I do not have bluetooth, my stock radio is pretty lame, and I will have to use the aux jack to play music from my phone. User experience is bad.

Possibilities- Install the door speakers, throw in some good high efficiency 6x9 coaxials for rear fill (since the MS8 will only send them 20 watts each). This would give me 6 channels of sound and them either use the bazooka or buy an amp and integrate the Rockford 10”.

Option 2- Order the PRS80 and an amp

Pro's- New head unit with all the bells and whistles that modern technology offers. User experience better.

Cons- Less adjustment then the JBL and additional equipment necessary.

Possibilities- Run a couple of 6x9 subs IB. I think this may be my best option since it frees up what little trunk space I have and need.

I am thinking about the Tang Bang W69

So in summary, if I do the JBL should I add 6X9's to the back since I have the channels to use and let the software make the adjustments to the stage? Is the JBL able to accept line in from the stock radio, as well as be connected to the bazooka via RCA at the same time?

If I decide on an amp and HU what amp would you recommend? I have looked at A/B options as well as D. I understand the pros and cons and all the arguments. What I care about is this. When there is a pause in the music, is there noise? I have read about speaker and amplifier distortion ad nauseum. What I am looking for is a good affordable budget amp that is clean enough to meet the criteria?

Currently for amps I am looking at:

Zapco ST-5X- Class A/B- 4 x 120 + 240 x 1

PPI Phantom 900/5- Class D 70W x 4 +270 x 1

JBL GTO-5EZ- AB/D- 50W x 4 + 350 x 1

PPI BA2200.5- AB/D -90W x 4 + 380 x 1

Please let me know your thoughts on the door material, as well as thoughts on components and the 6 x 9 situation.

And thanks for reading.