Battery or bigger cap??

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

OP even without the big 3 if you are truely running a 200a alt you're not gonna see any drop at 1200w. im running stock alt and at full tilt running 1k my voltage goes from 13.8 (alt charging) down to 13.6. if you have a multimeter i suggest testing your bat up front while the system is running, it could easily be the issue of your cap putting out the incorrect voltage reading

 

[BASSMEKANIK89 10+ year member]

I'm running a brz1700.1 putting 1200watts rms at 2 ohm and I currently have a 2 farad cap and it just does incredible voltage drop, what's some ideas?

1.) Upgrade you alternator. If your vehicle needs 125amps stock go with a 250 minimum.

2.) Upgrade the big three power under the hood and to the chassis. Also do a ground to the frame in the truck/cargo/amplocation.

3.) Make sure you are not using CCA Copper Clad Aluminum power wire for your install.

4.) Upgrade your battery under your hood

5.) If battery under hood still isn't enough of a buffer while sitting still and jamming, add another battery with a relay.

6.) If anyone tells you a cap is needed beat them with a trout and tell them "BAD SALESMAN"

 

[tpmeredith 10+ year member]

1.) Upgrade you alternator. If your vehicle needs 125amps stock go with a 250 minimum. 2.) Upgrade the big three power under the hood and to the chassis. Also do a ground to the frame in the truck/cargo/amplocation.

3.) Make sure you are not using CCA Copper Clad Aluminum power wire for your install.

4.) Upgrade your battery under your hood

5.) If battery under hood still isn't enough of a buffer while sitting still and jamming, add another battery with a relay.

6.) If anyone tells you a cap is needed beat them with a trout and tell them "BAD SALESMAN"

Honestly for his install the type of wire, OFC, CCA, etc isn't gonna make a big difference. Just get some welding 1/0 and call it a day.

Check all the connections for loose crimps/etc. Check ground for bad ground (not sanded down).

Are you testing voltage with DMM or cap? Are lights dimming heavily?

Test battery up front

Add Deka 105ah to back.

If you do big 3, have good connections, and battery in trunk, you should never have any drop issues. That is if you have a true 200amp alt.

I'm running a lot more wattage than that with a 135amp alt and pretty much no voltage drop issues. He doesn't need to upgrade a 200amp alt for that amount of wattage. What cars use 125amps for soley the cars?

Also throw the cap away IMO lol.

 

[tpmeredith 10+ year member]

Also here's some links:

Fusing guide for 2nd battery:

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/wiring-electrical-installation-help/398527-dual-battery-wiring-tutorial-why.html

Buy batteries from this guy:

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/electrical-wiring-classifieds/506110-bad4healths-deka-c-d-batteries-thread.html

Welding cable, order 1/0 (If you want it a lil more flexable order the ultraflex IMO):

https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?Next::1:UNDEF:OR:terms:A#A2

If you didnt find it yet....

Big 3 tutorial..:

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/wiring-electrical-installation-help/152355-official-caraudio-com-big-3-thread.html

 

[BASSMEKANIK89 10+ year member]

Honestly for his install the type of wire, OFC, CCA, etc isn't gonna make a big difference. Just get some welding 1/0 and call it a day.
Check all the connections for loose crimps/etc. Check ground for bad ground (not sanded down).

Are you testing voltage with DMM or cap? Are lights dimming heavily?

Test battery up front

Add Deka 105ah to back.

If you do big 3, have good connections, and battery in trunk, you should never have any drop issues. That is if you have a true 200amp alt.

I'm running a lot more wattage than that with a 135amp alt and pretty much no voltage drop issues. He doesn't need to upgrade a 200amp alt for that amount of wattage. What cars use 125amps for soley the cars?

Also throw the cap away IMO lol.

REALLY DID YOU JUST SAY THAT WIRE QUALITY WONT MAKE A DIFFERENCE???????? ARE YOU FLIPPIN RETARDED? He is asking how to resolve voltage/current issues and you tell him that **** wire is ok. Its cool that your car never drops below 14v, but you are on borrowed time. Your factory alternator is designed with about 10% excess of what is required to run the car properly. If his alternator is actually 200 amps great. If it is working properly than he has other issues. It is pointless for him to add another battery to a system if it can't charge the one that he already has. It just puts more strain on the alternator and factory electronics. Something WILL fail. You hit on a couple good points with the grounds sanded down and the test all connections, but to say wire that can be 40% less efficient is OK. C'MON. The point of forums like this is to help others do it the RIGHT WAY, no the cheap way. Sometimes they are the same thing, but usually NOT. I see people get installs all the time with great products and nice installs but there are problems.... Oh look you power wire melted thru the caseing from to much resistance. Sorry for the rant, just tired of seeing people **** money away and not fix the issues. I am not claiming that I have the right answers, but if we have the chance to do it right.... WHY NOT?

 

[tpmeredith 10+ year member]

REALLY DID YOU JUST SAY THAT WIRE QUALITY WONT MAKE A DIFFERENCE???????? ARE YOU FLIPPIN RETARDED? He is asking how to resolve voltage/current issues and you tell him that **** wire is ok. Its cool that your car never drops below 14v, but you are on borrowed time. Your factory alternator is designed with about 10% excess of what is required to run the car properly. If his alternator is actually 200 amps great. If it is working properly than he has other issues. It is pointless for him to add another battery to a system if it can't charge the one that he already has. It just puts more strain on the alternator and factory electronics. Something WILL fail. You hit on a couple good points with the grounds sanded down and the test all connections, but to say wire that can be 40% less efficient is OK. C'MON. The point of forums like this is to help others do it the RIGHT WAY, no the cheap way. Sometimes they are the same thing, but usually NOT. I see people get installs all the time with great products and nice installs but there are problems.... Oh look you power wire melted thru the caseing from to much resistance. Sorry for the rant, just tired of seeing people **** money away and not fix the issues. I am not claiming that I have the right answers, but if we have the chance to do it right.... WHY NOT?

lol bro 1/0 welding cable is rated a lot higher than he needs. Many people on this forum use welding cable. If he was running 10,000 watts I'd say look at the quality of the runs, but 1/0 welding is plenty good enough for what he needs. I've used it in my big 3 and for most of my wiring in my car, and it works great. Lol I highly doubt his 1200 watts is going to melt 1/0 welding cable. Insulation on it seems plenty proficient IMO, and on their site it's rated up to 350amps. While I wouldn't recommend sending more than 250-300 per run.

"Its cool that your car never drops below 14v, but you are on borrowed time."

Mind telling me how you figure? Voltage drop kills components, and seeing how I practically have no drop at 14v I'd beg the differ.

"Your factory alternator is designed with about 10% excess of what is required to run the car properly."

Not true either, as that really depends on the car. Maybe a honda civic doesnt have much, however other cars can have a lot of headroom.

"It just puts more strain on the alternator and factory electronics."

Some how I'm failing to read you. The battery is not adding strain, the voltage drop is adding strain to electronics. Adding a bigger battery in the trunk allows for simple bass drops to not impact overall voltage level as much.

I'm telling him suggestions of what will fix his problem without him spending needless money

Like I said, if his connections are solid, his alternator actually puts out 200 amps and isn't failing, and after he gets the big 3 done, then a 2nd battery SHOULD be all he needs. However, something doesn't smell right with this whole install because a 200amp alternator should be plenty to power what he needs and then some. My guess like I said is connections or something(batt or alt) is failing. If nothing indeed is failing, he should do the big 3 with 1/0, then look into a 2nd deka battery in the trunk.

 

[sleazebagger 10+ year member]

 

[BASSMEKANIK89 10+ year member]

Slamming head into desk hoping to have this make sense. He should go to Sears and have them check his Alternator output. Its free. With that being said Im going to go back to my install workstation and fix a install that was done on theories instead of facts similar to your recent post.

 

[T.I.K. 10+ year member]

Get the Lanzar Optiplex, it provides 250farads of instant power and it only costs 730 dollars

 

[d2k 10+ year member]

lol..... caps get such a bad rap wherever i go, i know ultimately they actually drain more than they help.... but on a low power system, with stock electrical (500wrms or so), using 8ga power cable & standard batt...

a 2 farrad cap CAN HELP.... if your lights are dimming using the above kit, then a cap will add the needed boost without fully emptying, in this case (& this case alone) a cap is a cheap way to remove light dimming.

dawns flame proof jacket!!

 

[T.I.K. 10+ year member]

Slamming head into desk hoping to have this make sense. He should go to Sears and have them check his Alternator output. Its free. With that being said Im going to go back to my install workstation and fix a install that was done on theories instead of facts similar to your recent post.

Do you recommend 800 dollars worth of unnecessary electrical upgrades to all of your customers?

 

[SPL Blazer 10+ year member]

For a small system like the OP has, OFC or CCA wire won't make any difference. CCA wire is 66% efficient compared to the equal OFC wire. If he's got a 200 amp alt it could be a piece of crap, like the 200 amp one I had. Might be 200 amps at 1500+ rpm, but mine only put out 30 amps at idle, half the idle output of the stock alt. If he's got voltage drop issues this could very well be the problem. A Big 3 upgrade would be a great thing to do regardless, but I think it could be his alt thats garbage.

 

[BASSMEKANIK89 10+ year member]

Do you recommend 800 dollars worth of unnecessary electrical upgrades to all of your customers?

I recommend the best solution to every one of my customers. Its the right thing to do, and it should be done every time. It is unnecessary if you dont understand what you are talking about. All of those options are not needed every time, but it you want to add a 1200watt amp to most cars you have to start with the alternator first. It takes power to make power. With the alternator you do the Big 3 upgrade, and you upgrade the factory battery at the same time. With that setup you should be able to run alot of current for the average consumer without a problem. Adding a battery doesn't give you more power. If you thing a battery or a cap gives you more power you are a MORON and should hang up your crimpers after reading this. If you do add a second(or more) battery to your electrical system you should use a relay under the hood, which is hardly ever done for some insane reason. I guess it makes too much sense to do it right the first time, or maybe to many people can type faster than they can think. I fix installs all the time that were done without all those unnessasary electrical upgrades. Maybe next i can fix one of your installs. If you take that personal, maybe you should.

 

[SPL Blazer 10+ year member]

A relay under the hood isn't necessary. If you plan on bumping with your vehicle off then a battery isolator should be used, but if thats not your intention then you don't need anything, just one more thing in the way.

 

[sacsking916 5,000+ posts]

ive never heard anyone using a relay for adding a second battery. new to me