Do I need an amp to run 6.5's better? Couple other questions

[airmcnair06 10+ year member]

I was active here a few yrs ago and kinda got out of car audio once I sold my old car and haven't had time to get back into it. this caused me to forget a lot (not that I knew much anyway) so i have a few questions.

i have a 99 Honda accord and i have 6.5's in the front and my car is the basic model and did not come with 6x9's in back (though the wires run back there). i had some installed and they don't sound good to me at all (specifically i think it sounds weird having the highs coming from the back. i actually think i was better off with just 6.5s in the front. i think I am just going to remove them and upgrade my stock 6.5's up front. so here are my questions

1. for anyone who has only front speakers...how did it sound? is this common?

2. what speakers would you recommend? i hear my doors are very low on space, so anything above 2 1/4 mounting depth would be tough to fit in the door. i don't really have a budget per se, i will pay for quality...but I am hoping to spend less than $250 for a set (but anything cheaper is FINE with me)...but I would spend more for quality.

3. I see some people saying that they are running they're 6.5s from an amp...but it seems as if its not required...any clarification on this? I'm guessing if they have an amp they are able to produce more RMS wattage for more power, would this be a correct assumption?

4. kind of a follow up to #2....I am looking for sound quality, loudness WITHOUT distortion, good bass response (I like the feeling i had in older cars where people actually thought i had subwoofers because my bass response was so deep, i want to replicate that as best as i can WITHOUT getting a subwoofer) while still being able to hear highs well. is this too much to ask from one speaker or would you all recommend i do tweeters?

5. would you guys recommend getting 6.5s in the back too for even better sound? even though the slots are 6x9's?

6. like I said, I don't know much about car audio, so what are the 2 square boxes with terminals on it in the picture linked below? Are 6.5's not plug and go like 6x9's? Just asking because I was thinking I could do the install myself, but that makes me think maybe I do not have the knowledge to do so...

http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/702141/big/sk6ii.jpg

Any input is greatly appreciated. looking to buy something this weekend as i have the time to shop around and research with a 3 day weekend ahead.

thanks

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[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

1. I run front speakers only. But, the only reason I am doing so is because I dont have the proper processing for the rears to make them enhance my front stage rather than interfere. I plan to run rears in the near future though once this issue is resolved. I personally like rear fill. Some people don't like it and some just ride the bandwagon of fronts only because all of the cool kids are doing it. I say try it both ways ,after having set up your fronts, even if that means leaving the rears stock before dropping cash on something you may turn off anyway.

2. 2.25 Mounting depth is pretty limiting. Have you considered a wooden spacer?

3. With a budget of up to $250, chances are you will need an amp to get the full potential from your speakers. No need in dropping a pretty penny on comps and not having them perform to their best, right? Especially if you are looking for a nice deep response from them.

4. You will need tweeters to reproduce the high frequencies. A standard component set will include them, so, no worries there.

2nd 4. Get your front set up first and go from there on deciding what to run in the rear.

5. Those boxes are called crossovers they keep the high freqs from playing from the mid and the lows from the tweeter. Its simple really. If you look at the box, it will say "input", "woofer" "tweeter". Run the wire from your amp/source to the input on the box. Then a wire from the "woofer" section of the box to the woofer and a wire from the "tweeter" section to the tweeter.

Hope I helped //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[MisterDeadeye 10+ year member]

1. for anyone who has only front speakers...how did it sound? is this common?

Pretty common, actually. Many people prefer using front speakers for mids/highs.

2. what speakers would you recommend? i hear my doors are very low on space, so anything above 2 1/4 mounting depth would be tough to fit in the door. i don't really have a budget per se, i will pay for quality...but I am hoping to spend less than $250 for a set (but anything cheaper is FINE with me)...but I would spend more for quality.

2 1/4" doesn't seem deep to me. Maybe think about using a 3/4" MDF ring extension on your doors to allow for a deeper woofer. With that depth, you'll be able to fit almost any 6.5" in there.

3. I see some people saying that they are running they're 6.5s from an amp...but it seems as if its not required...any clarification on this? I'm guessing if they have an amp they are able to produce more RMS wattage for more power, would this be a correct assumption?

Many 6.5" speakers have a fairly high power rating, upwards to 200W RMS per woofer. Your headunit will probably be putting out 10-15W per channel. Most speakers will sound okay on headunit power, but amplifiers are usually recommended if the speaker isn't very sensitive or has a high RMS rating. In fact, some speakers will have a minimum recommended wattage rating.

4. kind of a follow up to #2....I am looking for sound quality, loudness WITHOUT distortion, good bass response (I like the feeling i had in older cars where people actually thought i had subwoofers because my bass response was so deep, i want to replicate that as best as i can WITHOUT getting a subwoofer) while still being able to hear highs well. is this too much to ask from one speaker or would you all recommend i do tweeters?

You can get 6x9 subwoofers if you want real bass response. I know Tang Band makes one, and I'm sure there are others. As far as your other requirements, coaxial speakers can do all of those. I have a pair of Image Dynamics coaxials that get loud on 100W, and respond well below 50Hz with a bit of equalization.

4. would you guys recommend getting 6.5s in the back too for even better sound? even though the slots are 6x9's?

If you didn't like 6x9s back there, you're not going to like 6.5s. They'll sound the same.

5. like I said, I don't know much about car audio, so what are the 2 square boxes with terminals on it in the picture linked below? Are 6.5's not plug and go like 6x9's? Just asking because I was thinking I could do the install myself, but that makes me think maybe I do not have the knowledge to do so...http://images.sonicelectronix.com/images/702141/big/sk6ii.jpg

Those are component speakers, and those boxes are crossovers. Basically, they cut off frequencies so the woofer can crossover to the tweeter, in terms of frequency response. They're pretty straight forward. Pos/neg terminal for the input on each crossover and pos/neg for the tweeter and woofer. That specific component set lets you attenuate the tweeter, -3dB, 0dB, or +3dB.

 

[airmcnair06 10+ year member]

thanx for the quick responses!

I was hoping not to have to use a spacer just to keep things simple. where and how would I go about getting the spacer? what about these speakers here? they are very slim and still produce pretty good wattage Massive Audio SK 6 II (SK6) 6-1/2" 2-Way Slim Component Speakers

i do like rear fill...but it just feels weird with the vocals coming from the back and bass from front..id much rather the opposite or just run 6.5's in the back too....haven't decided yet.

where would tweeters normally be installed? in the front?

what exactly are coaxials? Is that when the speaker has the tweeter built in? i believe that is what my 6x9's have (polk audio)...there's a little bar sticking out of the middle of them, kinda like this http://www.millionbuy.com/images/products/PLKDB691_M.JPG i don't know they're specs or anything (pulled them out of my old car which came with them when I bought it)

where exactly would the crossovers be placed? and do i need them should i run them without an amp? (which, from the sounds of it, i will most likely get an amp)

 

[MisterDeadeye 10+ year member]

[quote name='airmcnair06']thanx for the quick responses!

I was hoping not to have to use a spacer just to keep things simple. where and how would I go about getting the spacer? what about these speakers here? they are very slim and still produce pretty good wattage Massive Audio SK 6 II (SK6) 6-1/2" 2-Way Slim Component Speakers[/quote]

You can make them yourself, or you could probably get them on here for the price of shipping and a couple of dollars. Just make a classified ad in the wanting to buy section. If you do that, you'll be able to get better speakers that you'd enjoy more.

i do like rear fill...but it just feels weird with the vocals coming from the back and bass from front..id much rather the opposite or just run 6.5's in the back too....haven't decided yet.

Like I said earlier, using 6.5s in the back will be just like using 6x9s, except for the difference in the specific speakers. I actually like having speakers in the rear, but if it screws up your soundstage, then there's no reason to try to put some back there.

where would tweeters normally be installed? in the front?

Of course in the front! Either in your doors(you'd have to cut a hole in your door panel), dash(either cut a hole, or make a pod and use velcro), or put them in your A-pillars(again, you'd have to modify them or make a pod and use velcro).

what exactly are coaxials? Is that when the speaker has the tweeter built in? i believe that is what my 6x9's have (polk audio)...there's a little bar sticking out of the middle of them, kinda like this http://www.millionbuy.com/images/products/PLKDB691_M.JPG i don't know they're specs or anything (pulled them out of my old car which came with them when I bought it)

Exactly, yes. It's when the tweeters are mounted above the woofers.

where exactly would the crossovers be placed? and do i need them should i run them without an amp? (which, from the sounds of it, i will most likely get an amp)

They're typicially velcro'd or glued to the inside of your doors. You'll want to waterproof them unless you mount them on the inside of the door. And they're needed regardless of whether or not you have an amp, unless you spend the money to get an amp that has the required crossover capabilities. I'd just use the crossovers that come with your speakers.


You can get a pair of Massive Audio VK6s from @Tallc for $75+shipping. Specs: Massive Audio VK 6 (vk6) 6.5" Component Speakers System

They're deeper than 2-1/4", though, so like I said earlier, you'd need a ring extension. And if you want to really improve your sound quality, go to Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information. MLV, CCF, and CLD tiles will help stop vibrations, separate waves, and can pretty well soundproof your doors/car.

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

^that definitely. In your case of wanting to run subless you will definitely want to purchase some sound deadening products and properly seal those doors to get that deep response that you want from the speakers.

Also, if it is within your budget, Massive makes a set called the CK6V that supposedly has monstrous midbass and they are usually about $140-$170 shipped new. For a cheaper subless alternative, Pioneer makes a set called the TS D1720c that has nice midbass as well that extends pretty low and take a lot of power. Either set will benefit from an amp though.

 

[airmcnair06 10+ year member]

great stuff guys. what type of amp will i need for all this? lets just say I am going to get the CK6V ma's (which I'm leaning towards)....what amp would be good? and how would i want them wired?

how do i "waterproof" the crossovers?

lastly, what type of sound deadening stuff would i need? theres a lot on that site you linked

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

great stuff guys. what type of amp will i need for all this? lets just say I am going to get the CK6V ma's (which I'm leaning towards)....what amp would be good? and how would i want them wired?

Just to complicate things, the new CK6X components just came out. They have an improved crossover that's adjustable, among other things. They're on Massive Audio's site and I can get them for you.

how do i "waterproof" the crossovers?

Rather than trying to waterproof the most sensitive part of a component set you should mount them inside the cabin.

lastly, what type of sound deadening stuff would i need? theres a lot on that site you linked

Send an e-mail to Don, the owner. It's the only way to order from Sound Deadener Showdown. He'll take the time to give you a quote for exactly the right amount of product for what your goals are.

 

[airmcnair06 10+ year member]

can you get them for cheaper than the $288 shipped, which is currently on their site?

what exactly is the crossover? and what makes it better being adjustable? in simple terms please lol

is the sound deadening something I can add later?

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

can you get them for cheaper than the $288 shipped, which is currently on their site?

I'm checking.

what exactly is the crossover? and what makes it better being adjustable? in simple terms please lol

This is what you connect your amplifier to. It splits the power between multiple speakers. You want it to be adjustable because the sound changes based on where you mount the 6.5" speaker and the tweeter.

is the sound deadening something I can add later?

Yes.

 

[MisterDeadeye 10+ year member]

Tallc can get you the CK6X for $190+shipping, I believe.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

Here are my thoughts:

1. Running front speakers without rears is fine.

2. Finding a good set of front speakers that fit 2-1/4 depth will be somewhat constraining. A lot of high end speakers have top mount depth of 2.7 inches or more. I have heard on a Ford forum that Kenwood has a nice set of shallow mount components that sound pretty good even with a 20watt amplifiers.

3. Having amplification is going to make your speakers sound better. Sometimes you need a trained ear to hear the difference, but it's there. In my experience, even cheap coaxial speakers sound better if you move them from HU power to an amplifier.

4. One simple and relatively inexpensive setup is the following. Get a high power 4-channel amplifier. For example, PPI Phantom P900.4 or Kenwood XR-4S. Use two channels to run the front speakers and bridge the rear channels for a subwoofer.

5. A slightly more advanced setup would involve a 5-channel amplifier with 2-way active front stage capable crossovers, such as Polk Audio D5000.5. In this setup you will not use the crossovers supplied with the component speakers. The woofers and tweeters plug directly into the amplifier, and you will rely on the amplifier crossovers to blend the tweeter with the woofer. This setup can help obtain more SQ as you will have more flexibility when it comes to setting the gains of the tweeters relative to woofers. It is easy to accidentally blow a tweeter in this setup, so it is recommended to insert a capacitor in line with the tweeter to protect it from the damaging lower frequencies.

6. If you have a stereo unit or a processor with time alignment, it could help improve the sound a lot. The most important thing is to time align the two front woofers with each other in order to center the volcals and the rest of sound stage. Time aligning tweeters and subwoofer with respect with other speakers can also help with SQ, but not always as much as that from alignment of the front woofers with each other. If the stereo has an active crossover good enough to high pass a tweeter, then you could run active front with a 4-channel amplifier (for the woofers and a subwoofer) and the tweeters running off stereo's amplifier. One such stereo is Pioneer DEH-80PRS.