Fi Audio 18BL warranty issue - failed after an hour of use

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Assuming his electrical was able to keep up for his 30-40 minute playing session. What was clean when you set it might not have been when voltage dropped bad, if it did...

i set my gains with my car off to completely avoid the voltage drop issue. granted, im only running ~1200W, but my voltage doesnt drop below 14.5 if im doing 45. if im at idle i can get voltage to drop to 14.0 after a few min, thats the lowest ive seen it go since i got my HO alt.

and for the record, KHA knows what he is doing. your point is completely valid, but im sure he made the necessary upgrades to run that much power.

Matt

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Assuming his electrical was able to keep up for his 30-40 minute playing session. What was clean when you set it might not have been when voltage dropped bad, if it did...

volt meter showed >13.5VDC. i asked he keep an eye on it, turn it down if it drops below 13. the ultracap bank we put in helped stabalize voltage very well. and in order to clip he would have needed 0dB sine waves at the assigned max volume. he didn't even go near that during listening because of how loud it was and his speakers were on the HU at the time.

the highest signals seen were during measurements which were for seconds, not minutes.

i hadn't considered that at 50Hz the cone movement is less and therefore the cooling is much less and power handling is less.

for future measurements, i will make tracks that have 2-3 second bursts at the frequencies of interest with some lower amplitude 30Hz tones between bursts for airflow and coil cooling. thoughts?

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i also do scope measurements of 0dB tones with the vehicle off to verify it doesn't clip with lower supply voltage (12.5VDC). that was a good point.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

looks like they went back to floating leads too many failures with the leads woven in the spiders.
dont think that bout all online places i take care of my customers even if i gotta reach in my own pocket and call it a loss.

if the coil isnt burnt it should be under warranty...

any other failures i experience with these subs, i will just send them to you and let you work your magic.

 

[BKNIGHTS 10+ year member]

Since when did they stop using full sized 8" spiders. And the floating leads scream cheap. I'd be disappointed if I got that after paying $350.

While watching one of those day time court shows the other day, the judge stated it is the seller's responsibility to pay for the return shipping, fix the issue, and pay for the shipping back to the customer because it was the sellers responsibility to provide a good product from the get go.

So here is the logic.

It was your fault were not fixing it = It was your fault were not fixing it

It was your fault but we will fix it if for free if you pay for shipping = manufacturer defect but screw losing out on that $$$

The only problem here is that there is no impartial mediator to decide your fate rather the company who's goal is to make money.

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

those are full 8" spider the basket is cut to allow up to a 8.5".

nothing wrong with floating leads if done rite. and actually it costs more because there is more time setting them up, usa labor = more cost.

floating leads are better than sandwiched in the spiders. every fi I rebuilt was cause of lead damage or ripped spiders...

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

volt meter showed >13.5VDC. i asked he keep an eye on it, turn it down if it drops below 13. the ultracap bank we put in helped stabalize voltage very well. and in order to clip he would have needed 0dB sine waves at the assigned max volume. he didn't even go near that during listening because of how loud it was and his speakers were on the HU at the time.
the highest signals seen were during measurements which were for seconds, not minutes.

i hadn't considered that at 50Hz the cone movement is less and therefore the cooling is much less and power handling is less.

for future measurements, i will make tracks that have 2-3 second bursts at the frequencies of interest with some lower amplitude 30Hz tones between bursts for airflow and coil cooling. thoughts?

Really if the guy using it isn't savvy enough to know the warning signs when to turn things down you should probably look into 8 layer or 4" coil sub that'll be more forgiving. Once you exceed 1200W on a coil like that it will fail eventually, how quickly will depend on a few things, but at that stage more power turns into more heat really quick.

 

[supereikenator 10+ year member]

Some of the smartest people on the forum in this thread. We need more like this one.

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

gotcha. i guess a thermal failure out of the gate gives me pause to give them credit for thermal management.
got images of the motor? there aren't any vents on the magnet itself, so all venting is between the spider and plate?

FI BL motor internals are not my property, they belong to Fi, so I don't have the legal rights to share that. Hope you understand.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

FI BL motor internals are not my property, they belong to Fi, so I don't have the legal rights to share that. Hope you understand.

i totally understand. good to know they are at least thinking about it.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Since when did they stop using full sized 8" spiders. And the floating leads scream cheap. I'd be disappointed if I got that after paying $350.
While watching one of those day time court shows the other day, the judge stated it is the seller's responsibility to pay for the return shipping, fix the issue, and pay for the shipping back to the customer because it was the sellers responsibility to provide a good product from the get go.

So here is the logic.

It was your fault were not fixing it = It was your fault were not fixing it

It was your fault but we will fix it if for free if you pay for shipping = manufacturer defect but screw losing out on that $$$

The only problem here is that there is no impartial mediator to decide your fate rather the company who's goal is to make money.

I think Fi blames me for it, even though I was operating it in a reasonable manner, it was properly wired, and I took every precaution possible to prevent clipping. I had higher expectations for the sub and we must have given it more power than it wanted. Clearly, the coils got hot, and they got hot on my watch. I don't believe they should have failed the way they did, and the lack of burning or other visible damage proves that. The stiffness of the suspension proves it failed almost immediately. The glue let loose, then the coil unwound and snapped.

I think it's still a warranty issue, but I am at their mercy now. I either pay the shipping or I get nothing.

In the end, it's a lesson learned and this experience, and this thread, have made me smarter. Sometimes, you gotta pay for education!

The take away message here is if you smell something funky, turn it down and let it cool off. I do that myself. I've smelled the small Ultra Subs A12 a few times once I put an older RF 800a2 on it. I knew I was giving it more than it wanted, clean, unclipped power, but more than it wanted. There is a reason I've never blown a sub, and still have my first subs from 1995 running in my garage.

 

[OldManBass]

Some of the smartest people on the forum in this thread. We need more like this one.

What he said. If KHA says it was a bad sub, it was a bad sub... period. I almost regret ordering my SSD's now... I hope I don't have any issues like this //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[OldManBass]

I think Fi blames me for it, even though I was operating it in a reasonable manner, it was properly wired, and I took every precaution possible to prevent clipping. I had higher expectations for the sub and we must have given it more power than it wanted. Clearly, the coils got hot, and they got hot on my watch. I don't believe they should have failed the way they did, and the lack of burning or other visible damage proves that. The stiffness of the suspension proves it failed almost immediately. The glue let loose, then the coil unwound and snapped. I think it's still a warranty issue, but I am at their mercy now. I either pay the shipping or I get nothing.

In the end, it's a lesson learned and this experience, and this thread, have made me smarter. Sometimes, you gotta pay for education!

The take away message here is if you smell something funky, turn it down and let it cool off. I do that myself. I've smelled the small Ultra Subs A12 a few times once I put an older RF 800a2 on it. I knew I was giving it more than it wanted, clean, unclipped power, but more than it wanted. There is a reason I've never blown a sub, and still have my first subs from 1995 running in my garage.

You sir are a wealth of knowledge, and a class act for sure. I wish you were close enough to help me with my upcoming install.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I think Fi blames me for it, even though I was operating it in a reasonable manner, it was properly wired, and I took every precaution possible to prevent clipping. I had higher expectations for the sub and we must have given it more power than it wanted. Clearly, the coils got hot, and they got hot on my watch. I don't believe they should have failed the way they did, and the lack of burning or other visible damage proves that. The stiffness of the suspension proves it failed almost immediately. The glue let loose, then the coil unwound and snapped. I think it's still a warranty issue, but I am at their mercy now. I either pay the shipping or I get nothing.

In the end, it's a lesson learned and this experience, and this thread, have made me smarter. Sometimes, you gotta pay for education!

The take away message here is if you smell something funky, turn it down and let it cool off. I do that myself. I've smelled the small Ultra Subs A12 a few times once I put an older RF 800a2 on it. I knew I was giving it more than it wanted, clean, unclipped power, but more than it wanted. There is a reason I've never blown a sub, and still have my first subs from 1995 running in my garage.

Also IIRC this was in a van. I'm gonna guess you'd smell a problem a lot faster in a Civic than coming from 20 feet behind you in a van.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Also IIRC this was in a van. I'm gonna guess you'd smell a problem a lot faster in a Civic than coming from 20 feet behind you in a van.

not the van. in a truck. so it was close. yes, we have the same sub in the van, but the van's sub is 3 months older. the van has been running with the same amp as the truck for months now, no issues, no smells.

i don't expect to have similar problems in the future, but if we do, it won't go back to Fi. SPL Audio will rebuild it better.