help with 3way crossover set points

[BlackMaxima 10+ year member]

.2 cubes is more than 5L. That's pretty big for "small sealed."
Might want to determine how large you can make the kicks, before you buy anything. The other option is just to make them as large as possible and then reduce the Vb to optimize the driver that calls for a smaller air space.

Put the Scan 12M on your list if you're going to play in Excel territory. They can play in very small enclosures and will run out at .707 Qtc in like a .7L sealed. Might even be able to go dash/bottom of A pillar if you're game.

I was thinking about the dash/bottom of a pillar idea too, i was thinking about putting the R3004/6020 and the L3 from hybrid audio in the pillar, plus the L3 works IB too.

the Scan 12M is twice as expansive as the Seas Excel W15LY-001

Box Suggestions: Seas Excel W15LY-001 from http://www.madisound.com

Sealed box 8 liters (0.3cf); f3 of 78Hz thats big for a small box too lol

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Out of everything listed so far, I'd contact Mark at H-Audio and see what he has for your app. He has experience with a lot of MR's and would be able to either fit one of the H-Audio drivers to your needs or point you in the right direction. I have no affiliation with him or anything, just trying to help narrow your search as you keep bouncing around.

You also need to state a budget so we don't recommend something you won't afford. You can find used pairs of Scan's for $300 or less, fyi.

You can sort of skimp on the MB's (I like the SLS choice, impossible to beat for the $) and you have the best compact format tweets out there...now you need to rock a solid MR, integrate it well and tune that **** up. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

 

[BlackMaxima 10+ year member]

Out of everything listed so far, I'd contact Mark at H-Audio and see what he has for your app. He has experience with a lot of MR's and would be able to either fit one of the H-Audio drivers to your needs or point you in the right direction. I have no affiliation with him or anything, just trying to help narrow your search as you keep bouncing around.
You also need to state a budget so we don't recommend something you won't afford. You can find used pairs of Scan's for $300 or less, fyi.

You can sort of skimp on the MB's (I like the SLS choice, impossible to beat for the $) and you have the best compact format tweets out there...now you need to rock a solid MR, integrate it well and tune that **** up. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

ty good advise.

as far as a the tweeter and midbass im good. I talked to mark on the DIYma forum and as far as the placements of the mids.

1) in the apillar : The trinity 3inch

2) in the kicks : Ebony or B&C

hes going to get back to me.

but soo far i like that apillar idea lol the trinity is nice and small lol

 

[Blue Fury 10+ year member]

Still looking for mids? Try these

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-848

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Still looking for mids? Try these
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-848

who what when where why?

 

[Blue Fury 10+ year member]

Got a great rating from zaph, inexpensive, they're a step above mine and I'm very satisfied with mine above about 250hz, why not right?

At least I think they're a step above mine

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

That's just silly. There are numerous things wrong with all of the assumptions you just made. Are all sensitivity measurments = across manufacturers? No. What about baffle diffraction? Off axis listening effects? Amp efficiency?
Also, why can't one effectively level match where it counts? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif Don't choose speakers based on efficiency, bad idea.

M5 has it right; you're trying to predict the weather half way across the world, man. You need to go to the destination first and then decide if you need a coat or not. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I've done a lot of experimentation with the deep chamber Illuminator RR's in my car. Just cause they have a low Fs doesn't mean they will play low and sound good. 2khz was the lower limit for my comfort.

Also, if you've never used a ring radiator tweet, you're best finding a laser pointer to work aiming. 15* makes a major difference. But once you nail those tweeters, I doubt you've ever hear anything better - home audio or otherwise. They're beautiful!

And from my experience with pro audio drivers, they're not going to have the "finesse" you're probably used to with car audio speakers. They're designed to play in cabinets and play loud. I wouldn't say ultra resolution is their strong point; but low distortion and midbass snap they have in spades.

He shouldn't be super off axis if he's putting the speaker his kick panels. Effeciency is a calculated measurement so while it's not the same from each manufacturer, it's going to be close especially since you midrange speaker WILL actually play the 1k tone that effeciency refers too. When one speaker is 9db's less effecient than everything else level matching can be a PITA depending on the size of your amp. You dealing with 8x less power to level match and as you begin to approach your midbass and tweets limits you hit power compression and xmax asuming you don't just run out of amp power all together.

I've run horns and high effeciency drivers actively for years, you really have to pad them even when mating them to relatively effecient drivers. Anyway alot of the best SQ cars in history used PA mids, so calling them undetailed is a bit harsh. Proper placement, level matching are the main keys with any drivers ability to give you low level details, along with low distortion which most PA speakers excel in, especially at the higher volume levels that people tend to listen to in a car vs a home. Unless he is playing with an awfully small amp I can't see a reason to choose the B&C over the scan's. It just seems to fit his application better.

Anyway if your crossing your mids over actively anyway why not simply run the mids IB by venting the kick into the pillar or door frame, etc? You can avoid alot of resonance issues this way and alot of people prefer the sound of a open backed midrange.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

When one speaker is 9db's less effecient than everything else level matching can be a PITA depending on the size of your amp. You dealing with 8x less power to level match and as you begin to approach your midbass and tweets limits you hit power compression and xmax asuming you don't just run out of amp power all together.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

By your rationale, we should be matching amp size with speakers and efficiency to efficiency. It's not a pain in the ass, it's just the reality of situation. I've ran enough "high efficiency" PA drivers to tell you the paper ratings and real world are vastly different for lots of different reasons.

Anyway alot of the best SQ cars in history used PA mids, so calling them undetailed is a bit harsh.

That, in no way, is a justification for using them. I have no problem with the B&C neo mag recommendation (I've used the 8's myself and thought they were great) and never said they were undetailed. It's a different meal to sit down to, that's all.

Unless he is playing with an awfully small amp I can't see a reason to choose the B&C over the scan's. It just seems to fit his application better.

A 30 wpc RMS amp will make any MR scream to the point of pain. Meaningless.

alot of people prefer the sound of a open backed midrange.

When the MR *should* be used as such, why not.

 

[BlackMaxima 10+ year member]

guys i finally made up my mind:

Tweeter:Scan-Speak Illuminator R3004/6020

Midrange: Trinity 3" or B&C

Midbass: Peerless SLS

Powered by

ARC Audio KS 300.4 ==Tweeter & Midrange

ARC Audio KS 300.4 ==Midbass

ARC Audio KS 1000.1== X2 Dayton RSS315HF-4 12 in a IB (rear deck)

Im going to try to put the Tweeter and the Midrange in the apillar, if i cannot fit the Midrange in the apillar and make it look good ill change the Midrange from the trinity to the B&C Midrange and ill put that in the kicks and the Tweeter in the apillar.

soo it comes down to

1) both R3004/6020 and Trinity 3" in apillar

or

2) R3004/6020 in apillar and B&C in the kicks

I have to see which option i can work with

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Still can put the Trinity in the kicks, though. I'd try both before you glass anything in. You might have a very bad PLD issue with MR's in the bottom of the A pillar. Just sayin.

Also consider the dome Illuminator tweet if you cannot get the 1" rings pretty close on axis. Maybe even the 3/4" RR for a little better off axis. They're not plug and play tweeters, to say the least. Domes might be a bit more forgiving, esp for a typical A pillar cross-firing tweet install.

Anyway, good luck. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[BlackMaxima 10+ year member]

Still can put the Trinity in the kicks, though. I'd try both before you glass anything in. You might have a very bad PLD issue with MR's in the bottom of the A pillar. Just sayin.
Also consider the dome Illuminator tweet if you cannot get the 1" rings pretty close on axis. Maybe even the 3/4" RR for a little better off axis. They're not plug and play tweeters, to say the least. Domes might be a bit more forgiving, esp for a typical A pillar cross-firing tweet install.

Anyway, good luck. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

i was thinking aiming both tweeters to the center of both front seats, ear level. if both tweeters are aimed in the middle of both front seats then both tweeters are going to be 10-12% off-axis. thats what a friend of mine did with the D3004 in the a pillars and it was about 8% off-axis and it sounded nice for the driver and passenger

BTW: whats a PLD?

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

path length differences

 

[BlackMaxima 10+ year member]

path length differences

ohh ok ty

now that i think about it yea your right FoxPro5

 

[Blue Fury 10+ year member]

I don't know if I'm too late but there's a 6 channel Arc amp that would be magic for this setup. That or the audison 6ch //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/drool.gif.b5e863e893038027711d4402f340dad0.gif

 

[ice_audioworks]

Locations will be
Midbass: in the doors

Midrange: in a kicks sealed

Tweeter: in pillars

I might change the mids from Fountek FR135EX to Hi-Audio Prolific

here is the link

H-Audio Inc. USA

powered by:

1) ArcAudio KS 300.4 (90X4 for the twets and midrange)

1) ArcAudio KS 300.4 bridged ( 350x2 for the midbass)

1) ArcAudio KS KS 1000.1 for the subs

in my opinion (using bassbox pro6 & X-over pro 3, CLIO & RTA audio Control SA3051):

Tweeter HPF 4000hz ,slope 12db

Midrange LPF: 1000hz-1600hz, slope 12db. HPF: 250hz-200hzhz,slope 12db (if u volume box is minimal 1,2Liters )

Midbass LPF: 160-200hz, slope 12db , HPF: 63hz-100hz slope 12db

SubsLPF : 50hz, slope 12db

u must try to all driver invert polarity of tweeter, midbass & sub or not....

sorry my english to bad //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

i'm from indonesia...

best regards,

ICE audioworkshop