Need Guidance for designing my upgrades, Thanks in advance

[johnnyrokz]

Hi All.

I'm brand new to the site. I have a decent sounding system in my 2002 Ford F350 Crew Cab Diesel that I have built piece by piece over the years. I am definitely an amatuer car audio guy but understand quite a bit about the physics of sound as I am a drummer, and sound board operator, and general audiophile all the way around. I have been wanting to upgrade my low end for a while and upgrade my amplifiers while I am at it. Right now I have a really great Eclipse CD 3404 Deck, (2) 12" CVR Kickers, one in a box I built and is in back behind seat and one downfired under jump seat in front, they are being powered by a Memphis Audio 300-2. I have (2) Kenwood 6x9 in front doors and (2) Pioneer 4x10 in rear and they are being powered by a Clarion amp I picked up pretty cheap. I listen to rock and metal and love that clean hard hitting bass and the crystal clear guitars..So I was wondering if you all could help me out on my new design cause guys at audio stores around here are giving me a different story all the time.

(1)I was thinking about a custom made enclosure for down firing the subs under back seat..(?) Who are the best manufacturers for these and what material is the best (i.e. I have heard fiberglass, poly, and standard MDF)

(2) How many subs and what brand are ideal for what I desire (I remember hearing a truck one time with (4) 8" downfired subs and it rocked)

(3) What are the best amplifiers for running the setup and will they come with specs for guage of power supply wires and fusing.

(4)I am looking to bench the Clarion amp and use the Memphis amp to run my four door speakers, it is only a two channel amp but could I use y's? It seems there should be plenty of power but don't know if I can Y off for four speakers and what kind of audio quality loss I will be looking at.

I am looking to spend no more than $1500 on equipment and I know I am more than competent to run all wiring (am a general contractor and do a lot of carpentry, electrical, and finish work).

Do you think its realistic to get some really good equipment at this price level for what I want to do?

Thanks so much in advance for any help and guidance you can offer...i appreciate it.

Johnny

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[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

(1) the best enclosure is as rigid as possible with no resonance, and properly designed for the subwoofer. the materials you use aren't as important as the application of those materials. fiberglass can be very rigid and allows for more volume in the same space since the wall thickness is so much less. MDF and PLY can also work, but they don't utilize undulating volume very well, and take up more volume anyway. if space is tight - go fiberglass so you get proper airspace, noting there will be MDF rings and ribs for support anyway.

(2) any sub properly installed, enclosed, and powered can do what you want. keep in mind that you want to control phase interference and recognize that where you put the sub will determine which cabin modes are excited, and where you sit determines which cabin modes you hear. acoustics 101. same theory applies to cars as it does rooms. the sub location that is closest to the corner will usually be the loudest. impact will come from adequate power handling and power delivery. you get what you pay for. what you get depends on your budget - that is your limiting factor. $250 per sub gets you into decent build quality.

(3) again, budget determines what you can get and thus determines performance. sure, some brands are better than others, and your budget will get us in the ballpark. i'm not going to recommend Audison amps if you can't spend a grand on one, ya know? All amps have recommend wire size and fusing. I read owners manuals before I buy something, i recommend you do the same so you can plan accordingly (and so you know what they can actually do). $500 for a good sub amp is about as low as i'd go for new, authorized.

(4) there is no sound quality in 4x10's regardless of where they are placed. there is limited sound quality in 6x9's in the doors. think about a sound stage and what is required in a studio to hear a sound stage. think about IID and ITD and how that applies to speaker placement. think about how phase interference (assuming specular reflections) is influenced by the associated arrival times. you know what i'm talking about, so try to apply it in your truck and you will be very happy. your plan to use the Memphis is fine, but I STRONGLY suggest you upgrade your speakers to some good front components with tweeters properly aimed and located - based on listening tests. you can easily move tweeters around while experimenting. you'll notice that the closer a tweeter is to glass, the more harsh it sounds (phase interference). tweeter installation location and aiming determines performance.

Here is an install i did for my co-worker, he has been a recording engineer and sound guy as well. This is what it took to make him happy. And he is VERY happy now. he started the build saying "i don't want a sound stage, i want music all around me" and now he says "this is a better soundstage than most studio monitors, i didn't know it was possible in a car". he's hooked.

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1805987/page/1#Post1805987

With $1500 and a DIY install, you can be happy if you spend money where it counts and keep a focus on the vehicle. I can spend less on gear and more on vehicle treatment and end up with a better sounding system every time. there is a huge selection in your price range. i like supporting local independent shops and i have good relationships with the ones in my area. i can usually get a better deal through them than i can authorized online. what brands/stores do you have around you?

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Here is an option from UltraSubs. I've done one of the LV10's in a extended cab Tundra in a custom down-firing center console. Very musical. Ultra rates the RMS power handling of their subs based on a 200 Hour test, the way it should be done.

One properly located and enclosed LV10:

Ultra Tech - Get Real, Get ULTRA - LV 10

Put a JL 500/1 v2 or an RF T500-1bdCP on the LV10 and it'll do wonders.

For musical needs, One SS-6 set:

Ultra Tech - Get Real, Get ULTRA - SS-6

Then deaden and seal your front doors for midbass output. you won't get midbass without a seal - no seal = phase interference and cancellation.

your current system is no doubt suffering from phase interference, as an RTA could show you. multiple arrival times = cancellation.

 

[Fiendstolemyamp 10+ year member]

Keep_hope_alive has given very good advice here , only thing I might disagree with is the $500 starting point for sub amps, as I have used others such as Audioque (cheap) that actually sound quite decent for less $.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i've had good luck with Powerbass amps as well. The ASA1000.1dx is a helluva amp for under $300. But like most inexpensive amps it needs a low impedance to perform, which has SQ consequences. you can certainly get a dual 2 ohm sub. a constant power/regulated power amp that can make rated power at 4 ohm is pretty freakin' neat and worked with my 4 ohm SVC suggestion. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

thanks!

 

[johnnyrokz]

@Keep hope Alive.......thanks so much for the information...very informative....I will do some homework with the local company as far as all the brands they are authorized with..we are a very small area and there isn't a whole lot of selection as far as shops go. I live on the Central Calif Coast...we have one big shop here called Lombards...they have changed hands many times through the years and it seems when I have more than one person helping me I get different answers even though my specifications and sound preferences always remain constant. I will get back to you shortly..thanks again for the advice everyone.

johnny

 

[smgreen20 10+ year member]

What Clarion amp is it? I might be able to give you a better idea just how much wattage you really have.

 

[johnnyrokz]

Clarion APX 400.4

 

[smgreen20 10+ year member]

That amp is a bit under rated, she's good for about 65w x 4 @ 4 ohms.

That was Clarions last good amp line til the XH series amps just out. The early Y2Ks aren't bad amps, just not as stout. The XH line just meets their rated output, but built sturdy for years to enjoy.

 

[smgreen20 10+ year member]

That amp is a bit under rated, she's good for about 65w x 4 @ 4 ohms.

That was Clarions last good amp line til the XH series amps just out. The early Y2Ks aren't bad amps, just not as stout. The XH line just meets their rated output, but built sturdy for years to enjoy.

 

[smgreen20 10+ year member]

opps

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

@Keep hope Alive.......thanks so much for the information...very informative....I will do some homework with the local company as far as all the brands they are authorized with..we are a very small area and there isn't a whole lot of selection as far as shops go. I live on the Central Calif Coast...we have one big shop here called Lombards...they have changed hands many times through the years and it seems when I have more than one person helping me I get different answers even though my specifications and sound preferences always remain constant. I will get back to you shortly..thanks again for the advice everyone.johnny

Never went to the Lombards in SLO, but talked to them on the phone a few times and they seemed competent. The little shop on Grand Ave in Oceano is terrible though.

 

[bigbangtheory 5,000+ posts]

I have that same Clarion amp you have and is good for about 70x4. Is a decent amp, but many better ones out there.

I recommend getting some comp's as well and place the tweeter, which you will have to test. I like the velcro effect till you get it in your best position.

1500 bucks, you can have a killer system. Keep Hope alive gave some sound advice and is spot on, minus the amp IMO. I have had plenty of amps for under 500 bucks do quite well. I dont see any reason to spend that kind of cheddar for what you are trying to do.

Good luck!