running 100wrms into comps rated at 150wrms and another idea. need input

[lubetek 10+ year member]

is this ok? I have been told by a a guy that runs a repair shop for amps that its better to put less constant power into a speaker than more than the speaker is rated.

I also heard from people on forums that pushing more power into them than they are rated (on good quality speakers) is better.

Of course putting exactly the power that the speaker is rated for is most likely best.

this question stems from a little problem I just ran into.

I bought an Orion 8004 amp.

100watts X4 @ 4 ohms

200watts X4 @ 2 ohms

I'm buying the Dynaudio System260 8" 2-Way Component rated for 150wrms

if i'm running one set of comps for my front stage then they will only be getting 100 watts per set. Now I wanted to drop the ohms to 2 and run the front at 200 watts each set. This is impossible because I only have the one set of comps. so to get the amp to see the 2 ohm load instead of 4 ohms I have to add another set of speakers. to do what I want to do I have to buy a set of Dynaudio MW150 mid range drivers. What I think I could do is run the mid driver directly off the 8" mid bass driver so that the amp see the extra load and drops it from 4 ohms to 2 ohms. By doing this I will get that extra 100 watts from the amp bringing each channel (all of this done off the front channel of the amp) to 200watts rms. Now I would have to do two things for this to work properly:

I would have to run the speaker wires from the amp to the crossover, then 2 lines running off it to the 8" midbass and 1" tweet. then run speakers wires from the 8" to the 4" mid bass + to + & - to -.

Also I would have to buy a couple "mini electrolytic caps" and install one on the positive speaker wire that runs between the + and + of the 8" and 4" since the 4" wouldn't have its own dedicated crossover. this way I can cap the freq. and not hit that 4" with too much. I'm thinking a 160v, 220uF cap would do the trick.

I'm fairly new to this sort of thing so if I missed anything or got something wrong please correct me.

also would I be losing SQ if I run those comps at 2ohms? If I would be losing quality then maybe I should NOT put the 4" mid range speakers in and just run the 2-way comps off of 100 watts at 4 ohms from the front channel of the amp. THEN i could buy those 4" mid drivers and run them off the rear channel of the amp at 100 wrms X2 (this speaker is rated at 100wrms)

this method would allow me to pump a total of 400 watts into the front stage with a total of 4 drivers and 2 tweeters all at 4 ohms Of course if I do this I will still have to either cap the 4" or use the built in crossover in the amp for the rear channel so that I don't over drive them. This method might give me the best SQ

what do you guys think? I already own the amp so I can't buy another higher rated amp.

Also because of the lack of power on the front stage I decided not to get the 15" MAG D2 because it will over power everything else at 1200watts 1 ohm.

Instead I'm going to get a RL-p 15" dual 4 ohms and run the amp at 800 watts rms 2 ohms. this will go a long way in making the entire system flow better IMO and in the end I have room to grow if I want to get a bigger sub (the amp I'm buying for the sub is 800wrms @ 2 ohms and 1100 @ 1 ohm

please if you have read all this let me know if I'm on the right track here.

thanks!!

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[dleccord 5,000+ posts]

for the midbass... yeah you can get the amp to see 2ohms but when you're running 2 speakers from one channel its just like splitting the power, isnt it? i am currently powering my 6.5s which is rated 80rms and they really like the 130 im feeding them.

 

[OldOneEye 10+ year member]

A few things come up. You have dumped a ton of money and it seems you didn't get the right stuff to do what you want.

First, put a cap on the mid isn't going to do the trick and probably waste any chance you have of good sound. You will have the 8" and the 4" reproducing some of the same frequencies as well as the 4" and tweeter (which is really bad as well). You also won't get the power you want (to get it to 2 ohm, you would have to run two sets of speakers (like 2 sets of components).

The dynaudios are power hungry. If it were me, I would run the component set bridged off of that amp 200 watts to each one (its probably way more power) and put those 4" drivers away. You will be much happier. Don't bother running the 4" off 100 watts each and the component set off the 1/8 component set.

Juan

is this ok? I have been told by a a guy that runs a repair shop for amps that its better to put less constant power into a speaker than more than the speaker is rated.
I also heard from people on forums that pushing more power into them than they are rated (on good quality speakers) is better.

Of course putting exactly the power that the speaker is rated for is most likely best.

this question stems from a little problem I just ran into.

I bought an Orion 8004 amp.

100watts X4 @ 4 ohms

200watts X4 @ 2 ohms

I'm buying the Dynaudio System260 8" 2-Way Component rated for 150wrms

if i'm running one set of comps for my front stage then they will only be getting 100 watts per set. Now I wanted to drop the ohms to 2 and run the front at 200 watts each set. This is impossible because I only have the one set of comps. so to get the amp to see the 2 ohm load instead of 4 ohms I have to add another set of speakers. to do what I want to do I have to buy a set of Dynaudio MW150 mid range drivers. What I think I could do is run the mid driver directly off the 8" mid bass driver so that the amp see the extra load and drops it from 4 ohms to 2 ohms. By doing this I will get that extra 100 watts from the amp bringing each channel (all of this done off the front channel of the amp) to 200watts rms. Now I would have to do two things for this to work properly:

I would have to run the speaker wires from the amp to the crossover, then 2 lines running off it to the 8" midbass and 1" tweet. then run speakers wires from the 8" to the 4" mid bass + to + & - to -.

Also I would have to buy a couple "mini electrolytic caps" and install one on the positive speaker wire that runs between the + and + of the 8" and 4" since the 4" wouldn't have its own dedicated crossover. this way I can cap the freq. and not hit that 4" with too much. I'm thinking a 160v, 220uF cap would do the trick.

I'm fairly new to this sort of thing so if I missed anything or got something wrong please correct me.

also would I be losing SQ if I run those comps at 2ohms? If I would be losing quality then maybe I should NOT put the 4" mid range speakers in and just run the 2-way comps off of 100 watts at 4 ohms from the front channel of the amp. THEN i could buy those 4" mid drivers and run them off the rear channel of the amp at 100 wrms X2 (this speaker is rated at 100wrms)

this method would allow me to pump a total of 400 watts into the front stage with a total of 4 drivers and 2 tweeters all at 4 ohms Of course if I do this I will still have to either cap the 4" or use the built in crossover in the amp for the rear channel so that I don't over drive them. This method might give me the best SQ

what do you guys think? I already own the amp so I can't buy another higher rated amp.

Also because of the lack of power on the front stage I decided not to get the 15" MAG D2 because it will over power everything else at 1200watts 1 ohm.

Instead I'm going to get a RL-p 15" dual 4 ohms and run the amp at 800 watts rms 2 ohms. this will go a long way in making the entire system flow better IMO and in the end I have room to grow if I want to get a bigger sub (the amp I'm buying for the sub is 800wrms @ 2 ohms and 1100 @ 1 ohm

please if you have read all this let me know if I'm on the right track here.

thanks!!

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

is this ok? I have been told by a a guy that runs a repair shop for amps that its better to put less constant power into a speaker than more than the speaker is rated.
I also heard from people on forums that pushing more power into them than they are rated (on good quality speakers) is better.

Of course putting exactly the power that the speaker is rated for is most likely best.

Yes, it's okay.

Many people run amplifiers larger than the speakers RMS power to their speakers (say, 300w RMS amplifier to 150w RMS speakers) ....but they aren't actually applying that much power to their speakers. If they did, there's a very high likelyhood that the speakers would be damaged.

Here's a good thread that should explain it to you pretty well (and save me the keystrokes of having to explain it myself //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif ): http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=124205&pagenumber=1

this question stems from a little problem I just ran into.
I bought an Orion 8004 amp.

100watts X4 @ 4 ohms

200watts X4 @ 2 ohms

I'm buying the Dynaudio System260 8" 2-Way Component rated for 150wrms

if i'm running one set of comps for my front stage then they will only be getting 100 watts per set. Now I wanted to drop the ohms to 2 and run the front at 200 watts each set. This is impossible because I only have the one set of comps. so to get the amp to see the 2 ohm load instead of 4 ohms I have to add another set of speakers. to do what I want to do I have to buy a set of Dynaudio MW150 mid range drivers. What I think I could do is run the mid driver directly off the 8" mid bass driver so that the amp see the extra load and drops it from 4 ohms to 2 ohms. By doing this I will get that extra 100 watts from the amp bringing each channel (all of this done off the front channel of the amp) to 200watts rms. Now I would have to do two things for this to work properly:

I would have to run the speaker wires from the amp to the crossover, then 2 lines running off it to the 8" midbass and 1" tweet. then run speakers wires from the 8" to the 4" mid bass + to + & - to -.

Also I would have to buy a couple "mini electrolytic caps" and install one on the positive speaker wire that runs between the + and + of the 8" and 4" since the 4" wouldn't have its own dedicated crossover. this way I can cap the freq. and not hit that 4" with too much. I'm thinking a 160v, 220uF cap would do the trick.

I'm fairly new to this sort of thing so if I missed anything or got something wrong please correct me.

Not going to work. For one, when the amp was infact seeing a 2ohm it would simply divide the power between the two speakers, where each speaker would see half the power, or 100w...which pretty much defeats the purpose of the 2ohm load in the first place //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Secondly, and more importantly, running a 2ohm load on the mid output of the crossover designed to operate with a 4ohm load would drop the crossover frequency by half! NOT a good thing to have happen, and it frankly wouldn't sound very good (or atleast how the designers intended it to sound and perform). So if the xover frequency was 2500hz with a 4ohm load, it would be 1250hz with a 2ohm load. You can imagine how that would affect performance.

Overall, you should just be shooting yourself in the foot by trying to do that.

If you want more power, why don't you just bridge the amplifier and run two channels bridged to each side?

also would I be losing SQ if I run those comps at 2ohms?

As I outlined above...yes, you would due to the shifting xover frequency.

If I would be losing quality then maybe I should NOT put the 4" mid range speakers in and just run the 2-way comps off of 100 watts at 4 ohms from the front channel of the amp. THEN i could buy those 4" mid drivers and run them off the rear channel of the amp at 100 wrms X2 (this speaker is rated at 100wrms)

You could do that. But then you would likely need to limit how high the 8" would play so that it and the 4" both weren't playing the same frequency range.

Basically, if you wanted to add that 4" mid, you would be better off buying another 2 channels of amplification and an external crossover and running active, IMHO. If that's not an option, I would just bridge the amplifier to the 2-way front stage.

 

[lubetek 10+ year member]

thanks for setting me str8 guys. I know I can bridge the amp to 400 x2 but do you think 400 watts is too much for those Dynaudio's? they are rated at 150wrms.

after reading your replies I now know I was wrong. So bridging the amp seems the way to go if those speakers can handle the extra power. its that or I just run 100wrms x2 for the comps which is kinda weak.

and yes because I'm new to this I bought the wrong amp to power my comps. I did not understand how the ohms worked and I thought I had a switch on the amp that I could select 4ohms or 2 ohms. I didn't realize at the time that to switch olms I had to add more speakers and wire it differently to draw more load and have the amp see 2 ohms and give more power. It wasn't untill yesterday that I started reading about ohms and realized my mistake. So now I'm trying to make the best of it because I'd rather not return the amp.

yes, I'm a rookie. I'm also a fast learner.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

thanks for setting me str8 guys. I know I can bridge the amp to 400 x2 but do you think 400 watts is too much for those Dynaudio's? they are rated at 150wrms.

Not if you set the gain and such properly and use the fader/attenuation on the deck to your advantage. You should be fine.

after reading your replies I now know I was wrong. So bridging the amp seems the way to go if those speakers can handle the extra power. its that or I just run 100wrms x2 for the comps which is kinda weak.

Try it and see //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif You never know....100w may be excellent. I "only" have 100w per side on my frontstage, and it gets louder than anyone could possibly need.

and yes because I'm new to this I bought the wrong amp to power my comps. I did not understand how the ohms worked and I thought I had a switch on the amp that I could select 4ohms or 2 ohms. I didn't realize at the time that to switch olms I had to add more speakers and wire it differently to draw more load and have the amp see 2 ohms and give more power. It wasn't untill yesterday that I started reading about ohms and realized my mistake. So now I'm trying to make the best of it because I'd rather not return the amp.

Honestly, you didn't make a mistake at all. That amp even running 100w to each side should be more than enough. And if not, you can always just bridge the amp and use the gain and fader/etc on the deck to attenuate if necessary.