Trying to improve sound, not just add BOOM and make louder - 2017 Subaru WRX

[alexwoodby]

I picked up my new 2017 WRX yesterday morning, and the stock sound system is muddy, and sounds like it's all in your face, not around you in the car at all.

So I stopped at a reputable audio installer yesterday.

They originally just wanted to put a sub and amp in the trunk. OK, but having "boom" isn't going to make music sound any better, nor is it going to fix the fact that it feels like I'm facing 2 speakers, there's no back fill at ALL, unless I send ALL the sound to the back.

Then he recommended alpine speakers at $200/pair and an alpine amp for same, when I said I mostly read this car needs an amp more than speakers. Then with the balance, an audiocontrol LC7.

I'm thinking at this point this shop only knows "add mo power", and really nothing about improving sound. Or am I missing something?

I don't know car audio, but just making something with no soundstage louder, won't it still have no sound stage? Wouldn't I need to add some backfill maybe some rear deck speakers, and more power to the back, with something like the LC7. There are further DSP's that let you adjust timing on the speakers as well, so the sound is timed to not have a miniecho, is that even necessary in a short car like this?

I agree it needs more base, but as I don't care for THOOMMMM base, more tight and integrated (rock, vocal, some metal) that's not my main concern at all.

Anyway, thanks much for any input, I'm trying to figure out where to even start on making this car sound good. My prior car I'd had forever had a whole bunch of speakers all over the place, really filled the car with sound. I don't like going backwards!

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[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

When you go to a live concert they are in your face not behind you.

 

[Jaxon88]

Try to sound deaden it maybe. Replacing stock speakers always help especially if you power them with an amp, then maybe just a small 8" sealed sub? And maybe a new headunit? Just some suggestions. Also I'd recommend you double check the instore prices against the online prices, I know when I went to one of those shops they jacked up the prices alot.

 

[jboy2015]

I picked up my new 2017 WRX yesterday morning, and the stock sound system is muddy, and sounds like it's all in your face, not around you in the car at all.
So I stopped at a reputable audio installer yesterday.

They originally just wanted to put a sub and amp in the trunk. OK, but having "boom" isn't going to make music sound any better, nor is it going to fix the fact that it feels like I'm facing 2 speakers, there's no back fill at ALL, unless I send ALL the sound to the back.

Then he recommended alpine speakers at $200/pair and an alpine amp for same, when I said I mostly read this car needs an amp more than speakers. Then with the balance, an audiocontrol LC7.

I'm thinking at this point this shop only knows "add mo power", and really nothing about improving sound. Or am I missing something?

I don't know car audio, but just making something with no soundstage louder, won't it still have no sound stage? Wouldn't I need to add some backfill maybe some rear deck speakers, and more power to the back, with something like the LC7. There are further DSP's that let you adjust timing on the speakers as well, so the sound is timed to not have a miniecho, is that even necessary in a short car like this?

I agree it needs more base, but as I don't care for THOOMMMM base, more tight and integrated (rock, vocal, some metal) that's not my main concern at all.

Anyway, thanks much for any input, I'm trying to figure out where to even start on making this car sound good. My prior car I'd had forever had a whole bunch of speakers all over the place, really filled the car with sound. I don't like going backwards!

You really only need front speakers, as a matter of fact, many of us on here dont use the rear fill.

Most of us here are to recommend the following:

A good component set up front

-Ditch the rear speakers(or at minimum dont put money into them)

One good sub like a sundown SA-12 in a WELL-BUILT box.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Yep. It's called 2.1. Left/right.sub

Now if you have 5.1 or 7.1 you can use rear fill.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I picked up my new 2017 WRX yesterday morning, and the stock sound system is muddy, and sounds like it's all in your face, not around you in the car at all.
So I stopped at a reputable audio installer yesterday.

They originally just wanted to put a sub and amp in the trunk. OK, but having "boom" isn't going to make music sound any better, nor is it going to fix the fact that it feels like I'm facing 2 speakers, there's no back fill at ALL, unless I send ALL the sound to the back.

Then he recommended alpine speakers at $200/pair and an alpine amp for same, when I said I mostly read this car needs an amp more than speakers. Then with the balance, an audiocontrol LC7.

I'm thinking at this point this shop only knows "add mo power", and really nothing about improving sound. Or am I missing something?

I don't know car audio, but just making something with no soundstage louder, won't it still have no sound stage? Wouldn't I need to add some backfill maybe some rear deck speakers, and more power to the back, with something like the LC7. There are further DSP's that let you adjust timing on the speakers as well, so the sound is timed to not have a miniecho, is that even necessary in a short car like this?

I agree it needs more base, but as I don't care for THOOMMMM base, more tight and integrated (rock, vocal, some metal) that's not my main concern at all.

Anyway, thanks much for any input, I'm trying to figure out where to even start on making this car sound good. My prior car I'd had forever had a whole bunch of speakers all over the place, really filled the car with sound. I don't like going backwards!

It just means your front speakers s*cks and your processing s*cks. I'd say get your hands on a JBL MS8 if you want to keep stock and have that surround sound feel. Its mainly time alignment along with EQ, speaker positioning etc.

More power to the speakers will actually help them have a fuller sound which will actually help you achieve your goals, its not really just meant for getting louder, its to actually bring out the midrange and tweeter detail along with the midbass kick that brings realism to drums and actually lets you feel where the drums and high hats are coming from. Stock head units only provide 3-5 watts per speaker which is p*ss poor. However that audiocontrol suggestion is sh*t. Does nothing soundstage wise.

A proper front stage will have a very powerful surrounding concert feel when done right, imagine the whole band on your dash giving you a personal performance and you can hear the drums sweeping across the dash and vocalist dead center and guitarists on the sides doing their solos.

Another thing is poor music files. If you use anything other than 192kbps, 320kbps or lossless, good chance that you will get very little soundstage. Pandora is 128kbps or less just for reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr51zXfy_L0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr51zXfy_L0

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

When you go to a live concert they are in your face not behind you.

DD subs are the best..

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

DD subs are the best..

dont start cluttering people's threads with this shit again guys....

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

dont start cluttering people's threads with this shit again guys....

what its a recommendation..

 

[alexwoodby]

Hmm, yes, my home audio I eschew the surround for a good component system with 2.1, I hear what you say about "it's in front", but the car has 6 speakers, 2 tweeters in dash, then one in each door. It's not even in front, it's beside and, well, I guess in the car I want to feel it around me, not like it currently is.

I've been in many a normal, non 16 or whatever speaker car, still has more of an around you feel, this feels very in front, more so than my home stereo somehow.

I highly doubt I have many even 256k audio files, mostly 320. I've put some cd's in the car as well now to try tomorrow.

OK, I think I understand. Underdriven speakers certainly underperform, same in home audio.

This shop, the only stuff they pushed was alpine. I've been trying to avoid it, too many projects on my plate already, but I may have to do my own install. I've done about everything else on a car BUT audio installs, what the heck.

SO, what I'm hearing/thinking is...

Start with an amp and a sub, see how it sounds, be prepared to replace speakers next, if that doesn't work, the head unit, which I'd rather not but there are ways to make it have all the car's functionality, so it's doable.

As for the jbl ms-8, innnteresting, but looks like way more setup than I'm feeling like right now. Then I'd have to get a meter and get all that into it and omg I don't need any more hobbies! Unless of course I find a better shop that can do the setup...

Now I'll stalk the forum for amp and sub suggestions! Thank you all very much!

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Hmm, yes, my home audio I eschew the surround for a good component system with 2.1, I hear what you say about "it's in front", but the car has 6 speakers, 2 tweeters in dash, then one in each door. It's not even in front, it's beside and, well, I guess in the car I want to feel it around me, not like it currently is.
I've been in many a normal, non 16 or whatever speaker car, still has more of an around you feel, this feels very in front, more so than my home stereo somehow.

I highly doubt I have many even 256k audio files, mostly 320. I've put some cd's in the car as well now to try tomorrow.

OK, I think I understand. Underdriven speakers certainly underperform, same in home audio.

This shop, the only stuff they pushed was alpine. I've been trying to avoid it, too many projects on my plate already, but I may have to do my own install. I've done about everything else on a car BUT audio installs, what the heck.

SO, what I'm hearing/thinking is...

Start with an amp and a sub, see how it sounds, be prepared to replace speakers next, if that doesn't work, the head unit, which I'd rather not but there are ways to make it have all the car's functionality, so it's doable.

As for the jbl ms-8, innnteresting, but looks like way more setup than I'm feeling like right now. Then I'd have to get a meter and get all that into it and omg I don't need any more hobbies! Unless of course I find a better shop that can do the setup...

Now I'll stalk the forum for amp and sub suggestions! Thank you all very much!

The ms-8 is very simple install and it autotunes very efficiently so you dont have to worry about any meter or anything of the sort. Plug and play basically. Id get that before anything. Good processing is the start of a good setup. Stock head units are the absolute worst. They also have a built in 8 channel amp as well that the shop can hook your stock speakers into and get a good upgrade as well.

 

[alexwoodby]

The ms8 would replace the amp as well? Hrm. I've never been impressed by jbl, but haven't given them any shots for, oh, 20 years, things change. I'll look more into that then, sounds like a handy thing for if I did want to add more speakers etc.

Question though, how is it processing, the head unit isn't outputting a digital signal but an analog, probably the preamp out, right? So it's a->digital, processing, then converting back d-->a? And how does it autotune, does it have a microphone so it can read/adjust signals? Hrm, if you don't feel like responding to all that no worries, I can look it up!

Thanks for Giving me something to look up!

You'd add that over adding a sub for bass or, well, I guess it replaces an amp. Or this and 500 on a sub still fits my startup budget. Thanks again, will look into that.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

The ms8 would replace the amp as well? Hrm. I've never been impressed by jbl, but haven't given them any shots for, oh, 20 years, things change. I'll look more into that then, sounds like a handy thing for if I did want to add more speakers etc.
Question though, how is it processing, the head unit isn't outputting a digital signal but an analog, probably the preamp out, right? So it's a->digital, processing, then converting back d-->a? And how does it autotune, does it have a microphone so it can read/adjust signals? Hrm, if you don't feel like responding to all that no worries, I can look it up!

Thanks for Giving me something to look up!

You'd add that over adding a sub for bass or, well, I guess it replaces an amp. Or this and 500 on a sub still fits my startup budget. Thanks again, will look into that.

yeah its A > digital processing then A again. Has a microphone to autotune just like the audessy mics in home recievers, but it does more than just speaker level and time alignment, the 31 band EQ is set up marvelously vs home receivers with very limited EQ band and range. Also sets the crossover points perfectly too to match your vehicle's acoustics. The bass setup would be different because the MS-8 amp will not have enough power for a subwoofer as most subwoofers are 300 watts rms and higher.

 

[alexwoodby]

I figured the sub would have it's own amp

 

---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------

 

31 band eq? is that accessible? or goes it autoeq somehow but call it 31 band?

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I figured the sub would have it's own amp 

---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------

 

31 band eq? is that accessible? or goes it autoeq somehow but call it 31 band?

It's accessible. If you have questions about it let me know.