heard same speakers as mine on high end kenwood, sounded much better

[Fixxer 10+ year member]

My kicker is 4x120 @ 4ohms 4x170 @ 2ohms and 2x325 @ 4ohms bridged so I don't think that is correct that it drops the ohm load unless your amp says "200w X2 bridged @ 2ohms"

 

[SlickCMRick 10+ year member]

thanks, now ill for sure be bridging my amp to the germs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

My kicker is 4x120 @ 4ohms 4x170 @ 2ohms and 2x350 @ 4ohms bridged so I don't think that is correct that it drops the ohm load unless your amp says "200w X2 bridged @ 2ohms"

it doesn't however you double the power your amp puts out at a given load, which is "like" halfing your impedence, I think that's what he was talking about.

 

[phenryiv1 10+ year member]

Yes, I am. You are doubling distortion when your bridge an amp, however it doesn't matter. Your doubling something that is still FAR from audible, even if it was through headphones on pure tones, let alone music in a car.

Well put. When I think of doubling output through dropping impedence, I think about the increase in THD, but as you note, it is most likely still below the sonic threshold of most people- particularly when played in an automotive environment.

In reading all of this, I think that the EQ settings have a LOT to do with it, and I still think that he may be overdriving the morels (though I don't REALLY know that much about them).

When I think about 250W RMS to comps, I can comprehend that being "just right," but the first thought is that it is too much power. Like I said- I don't know that particular setup that well, though.

My second culprit still goes back to clean signal. His (likely) 4V output and lower gaon settings may still trump the settings that you used after metering to set gains. If he has his gains dialed back to a few clicks before clipping and you are just on the threshhold, you may be getting that clipping at certain times.

Again, I am not a professional, but I am trying to think aloud.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Well put. When I think of doubling output through dropping impedence, I think about the increase in THD, but as you note, it is most likely still below the sonic threshold of most people- particularly when played in an automotive environment.
In reading all of this, I think that the EQ settings have a LOT to do with it, and I still think that he may be overdriving the morels (though I don't REALLY know that much about them).

When I think about 250W RMS to comps, I can comprehend that being "just right," but the first thought is that it is too much power. Like I said- I don't know that particular setup that well, though.

My second culprit still goes back to clean signal. His (likely) 4V output and lower gaon settings may still trump the settings that you used after metering to set gains. If he has his gains dialed back to a few clicks before clipping and you are just on the threshhold, you may be getting that clipping at certain times.

Again, I am not a professional, but I am trying to think aloud.

Depending on the tone he used to set his gains it's may literally be impossible for him to clip on music. By the time his amp clipped, he'd be putting 300 watts on those comps. They'd fry and he'd be deaf. If anyone's clipping it's the guy with 85 watts. I'd doubt it's his gains, I'd chalk it up to being a different car with a better EQ.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

It's probably one or more of the following

1.) He has Time Alignment

2.) He has more processing/EQing

3.) The Acoustics of the car are drastically different

4.) His amp has a higher voltage rail than yours is. Feeding the speakers power isnt what makes them sound good. Think of it this way, an amp rated for 200w RMS and 400w peak by voltage...You can feed the speaker the voltage 40w RMS and when a signal 20dB peak amplitude comes by (such as the clash of a symbol) your amp is going to try and produce the voltage to reach 4,000w peak. That isnt going to happen and the voltage is clipped. He has an amp rated at 400w peak and he feeds them the voltage for 4w RMS. That same spike comes along and the amp is called upon to produce the voltage for only 400w peak which it is capeable of so the signal is complete.

5.) Install...reguardless of what he is telling you

6.) In your head. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

 

[phenryiv1 10+ year member]

My kicker is 4x120 @ 4ohms 4x170 @ 2ohms and 2x325 @ 4ohms bridged so I don't think that is correct that it drops the ohm load unless your amp says "200w X2 bridged @ 2ohms"

You can take an amp into 2 ohm mode while still in stereo if you show it a 2 ohm load.

If you bridge 2 4 ohm channels on an amp, and if the speaker's (load) is a nominal 4 ohms, your amp will see 2 ohms.

There is no way to get around it. The "@4ohms" part is specifying that that is the output INTO A 4 OHM LOAD. The amp still "sees" 2 Ohms in each of the channels that is bridged.

 

[Fixxer 10+ year member]

You can take an amp into 2 ohm mode while still in stereo if you show it a 2 ohm load.
If you bridge 2 4 ohm channels on an amp, and if the speaker's (load) is a nominal 4 ohms, your amp will see 2 ohms.

There is no way to get around it. The "@4ohms" part is specifying that that is the output INTO A 4 OHM LOAD. The amp still "sees" 2 Ohms in each of the channels that is bridged.

So the speaker is seeing 4ohms but the amp is taking 2ohms from each set of channels to make that 4ohms?

 

[phenryiv1 10+ year member]

So the speaker is seeing 4ohms but the amp is taking 2ohms from each set of channels to make that 4ohms?

In simple, terms, yes. Impedence is a measure of RESISTANCE, not output, but that is the basic concept. I am not an EE, but that is the gist of it.

 

[almond 10+ year member]

it's basically the same as strapping amps. two amps strapped at 4 ohms each will see 2 ohms. basically the same idea, but both amps are in the same case.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

In simple, terms, yes. Impedence is a measure of RESISTANCE, not output, but that is the basic concept. I am not an EE, but that is the gist of it.

Impedence is a measure of opposition to alternating current.

Had to bust your balls. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[Trey803 5,000+ posts]

I dont think your problem lies in the equipment. Try readin the proper door deadning thread and do all of that.

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

It's probably one or more of the following
1.) He has Time Alignment

2.) He has more processing/EQing

3.) The Acoustics of the car are drastically different

4.) His amp has a higher voltage rail than yours is. Feeding the speakers power isnt what makes them sound good. Think of it this way, an amp rated for 200w RMS and 400w peak by voltage...You can feed the speaker the voltage 40w RMS and when a signal 20dB peak amplitude comes by (such as the clash of a symbol) your amp is going to try and produce the voltage to reach 4,000w peak. That isnt going to happen and the voltage is clipped. He has an amp rated at 400w peak and he feeds them the voltage for 4w RMS. That same spike comes along and the amp is called upon to produce the voltage for only 400w peak which it is capeable of so the signal is complete.

5.) Install...reguardless of what he is telling you

6.) In your head. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

first off, i appreciate the detail of all your guys responses.

1. his time alignment was off. i also have time alignment, but because of the fact that the front speaker location embodies both the tweeter and woofer, and because these two drivers are roughly 16 inches apart, it is difficult to pick a midpoint between the two.

my HU has Front Left, Front Right, Back Left, Back Right, and Sub 1 and Sub 2 inputs for the time alignment.

if i was to go active, i could use the front speaker settings for the tweeters, and the back speaker settings for the woofers, this way, each driver location has its own input.

however, due to the fact that i have been playing drums almost all of my life, my hearing in my left ear isnt great, so time alignment, in my case, is not of the utmost importance.

2. i have pretty sick BBE processing and a 16 band EQ. how does a 16 band EQ (all other things being equal) compare with a 4 band parametric EQ?

3. you're probably right, 4 door vs. 2 door

4. little technical, but are u basing these comments on the amp i have and the amp he has or just speaking generally? I have a kicker kx650.4, he has a JL 300/4.

5. if anything, i would say my install might be a little better than his, bc more dynamat was used to prevent vibration distortion. the first set of components i had in the front, i couldnt turn the HPF any lower than 150 Hz or it would shake the doors louder than the music was playing.

6. i would consider that it was in my head, except for the fact that the test was done using 2 identical songs, 'so cold' by breaking benjamin and 'ghost of perdition' by opeth.

not only do i know very well how both songs sound in my car, after playing them for him in my car, we immediately went into his car and listened to the same 2 songs.

i didnt think his setup would stand a chance, since we have the same components, same install (for all intents and purposes), however, he is underpowering them and only sending them half the rms. i am sending them one and a half times the rms.

i have played in so many bands i cant even remember, and i play 3 other instruments besides drums. i have been giving drum lessons since i was 19, and have seen over 200 concerts. with that said, when he played 'so cold' by breaking benjamin, it sounded like the 2 guitarists were playing out of 2 separate amps.

i have heard what it sounds like to have 2 guitars sharing an amp. even with my boys marshall stack and all his ridiculous processing, simply plugging in another guitar at the same time lowers SQ noticeably (which makes sense based on what i have learned on these forums).

on the recording, the 2 guitars are not panned to sep. sides (e.g., rhythm guitar to the left speaker, lead guitar to the right speaker), but it sounded like they were.

NOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN 30 RESPONSES TO MY THREAD I FINALLY TAKE THE TIME TO EXPLAIN THE ACTUAL DIFFS IN SQ I NOTICED!

 

[Fixxer 10+ year member]

Musta had a brain fart.. heh.. I know all this but I couldn't wrap my head around it there.

 

[Fixxer 10+ year member]

5. if anything, i would say my install might be a little better than his, bc more dynamat was used to prevent vibration distortion. the first set of components i had in the front, i couldnt turn the HPF any lower than 150 Hz or it would shake the doors louder than the music was playing.

Thats pretty high.. Whats it set at now?