heard same speakers as mine on high end kenwood, sounded much better

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

Thats pretty high.. Whats it set at now?

this was pre fiberglass pods, pre morel components, pre dynamat xtreme. funny you should ask, check out this thread:

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206815

 

[Fixxer 10+ year member]

this was pre fiberglass pods, pre morel components, pre dynamat xtreme. funny you should ask, check out this thread:
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206815

I'd post but I'm not using the HU's crossovers as I have an AudioControl 6XS... I have the HPF @ 80hz and the LPF @ 80hz right now..

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

first off, i appreciate the detail of all your guys responses.
1. his time alignment was off. i also have time alignment, but because of the fact that the front speaker location embodies both the tweeter and woofer, and because these two drivers are roughly 16 inches apart, it is difficult to pick a midpoint between the two.

my HU has Front Left, Front Right, Back Left, Back Right, and Sub 1 and Sub 2 inputs for the time alignment.

if i was to go active, i could use the front speaker settings for the tweeters, and the back speaker settings for the woofers, this way, each driver location has its own input.

however, due to the fact that i have been playing drums almost all of my life, my hearing in my left ear isnt great, so time alignment, in my case, is not of the utmost importance.

2. i have pretty sick BBE processing and a 16 band EQ. how does a 16 band EQ (all other things being equal) compare with a 4 band parametric EQ?

3. you're probably right, 4 door vs. 2 door

4. little technical, but are u basing these comments on the amp i have and the amp he has or just speaking generally? I have a kicker kx650.4, he has a JL 300/4.

5. if anything, i would say my install might be a little better than his, bc more dynamat was used to prevent vibration distortion. the first set of components i had in the front, i couldnt turn the HPF any lower than 150 Hz or it would shake the doors louder than the music was playing.

6. i would consider that it was in my head, except for the fact that the test was done using 2 identical songs, 'so cold' by breaking benjamin and 'ghost of perdition' by opeth.

not only do i know very well how both songs sound in my car, after playing them for him in my car, we immediately went into his car and listened to the same 2 songs.

i didnt think his setup would stand a chance, since we have the same components, same install (for all intents and purposes), however, he is underpowering them and only sending them half the rms. i am sending them one and a half times the rms.

i have played in so many bands i cant even remember, and i play 3 other instruments besides drums. i have been giving drum lessons since i was 19, and have seen over 200 concerts. with that said, when he played 'so cold' by breaking benjamin, it sounded like the 2 guitarists were playing out of 2 separate amps.

i have heard what it sounds like to have 2 guitars sharing an amp. even with my boys marshall stack and all his ridiculous processing, simply plugging in another guitar at the same time lowers SQ noticeably (which makes sense based on what i have learned on these forums).

on the recording, the 2 guitars are not panned to sep. sides (e.g., rhythm guitar to the left speaker, lead guitar to the right speaker), but it sounded like they were.

NOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN 30 RESPONSES TO MY THREAD I FINALLY TAKE THE TIME TO EXPLAIN THE ACTUAL DIFFS IN SQ I NOTICED!

Couple SQ tips. For staging purposes frequencies above 2k are mostly intesity dependent. For time dependency, your going to want to get your midbass and midrange in focus. For T/A measure the differerence of the woofers, not the tweets. Pathlenghts just arent' that critical above 2k. You may also want to use your balance knob to help your bad ear out, if you haven't done that already. Your problem with your car is obviously your staging, you have tools to work on it so use them! Also, you might have phase issues. Have you tried flipping polarity on your midbass and tweeters, if not, try every combination.

 

[Team Hammer 10+ year member]

I say its not a Equipment issue, But a Setup issue. You could hit the speakers with 500w's and it would not make it sound any better. You might get a light show watching those light bulbs.

His system EQ and setup are just better matched to his Car. Being that he works at a shop, I beat he spent more time getting it right then most are willing to spend. Thats why its so important to understand why your buying XYZ and how to get the most out of it.

Money doesn't buy great sound, Understanding how to use it does. Thats why some pay someone else to do it.

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

once again i wanna thank everyone for their responses.

i talked to bob morrow over at morel (one of the many places he does his thing, including car audio and electronics mag) and he suggested this test to see if i wanna upgrade my HU.

once i have fully addressed all my phase issues, etc., i will go to my install guy and unplug the RCAs from his amp. then, plug those RCAs into my amp and see how it sounds. so i will be running my speakers thru my amp but HIS head unit.

if its similar/identical in terms of SQ with what my HU puts out, i will put the money i have been setting aside for car audio expenditures into a better amp or an audiocontrol dqxs and go active.

if the SQ is much better with HIS head unit, i will know what i need to do.

 

[jspsc123 10+ year member]

hi i went from a kenwood ddx 8017 to a pioneer premier deh p680mp.i sold the kenwood so i could get rims and when i installed the pioneer i was wery impressed. i had it hooked up to the same amp same speakers same car and the sound was noticeably louder and cleaner.the kenwood was suppoes to be better but it wasnt. before you spend a lot of money upgrading a hu i would check how everything is tuned because i got better results with a lesser hu.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

once again i wanna thank everyone for their responses.
i talked to bob morrow over at morel (one of the many places he does his thing, including car audio and electronics mag) and he suggested this test to see if i wanna upgrade my HU.

once i have fully addressed all my phase issues, etc., i will go to my install guy and unplug the RCAs from his amp. then, plug those RCAs into my amp and see how it sounds. so i will be running my speakers thru my amp but HIS head unit.

if its similar/identical in terms of SQ with what my HU puts out, i will put the money i have been setting aside for car audio expenditures into a better amp or an audiocontrol dqxs and go active.

if the SQ is much better with HIS head unit, i will know what i need to do.

If you go active you can get every possible gain from his hu, plus 1000x more. No slight difference from a hu is going to outdo custom crossover points and slopes. Just remember to clean off your RCA's before you do this.....

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

4.) His amp has a higher voltage rail than yours is. Feeding the speakers power isnt what makes them sound good. Think of it this way, an amp rated for 200w RMS and 400w peak by voltage...You can feed the speaker the voltage 40w RMS and when a signal 20dB peak amplitude comes by (such as the clash of a symbol) your amp is going to try and produce the voltage to reach 4,000w peak. That isnt going to happen and the voltage is clipped. He has an amp rated at 400w peak and he feeds them the voltage for 4w RMS. That same spike comes along and the amp is called upon to produce the voltage for only 400w peak which it is capeable of so the signal is complete.

If the gains are set correctly, the most dynamic passage still won't cause the output to clip. The gain is set to a 0dB reference. That is your peak voltage/power. From there you can only turn it down. The actual dynamic range of the system is not limited by the amp, only the range of actual SPL over which the dynamic range can fall. If one setup is actually feeding the speakers 40W RMS, it will be 10dB louder than the system feeding 4W RMS. The reality is that you never actually run that much power to the speakers. If you are both listening to your systems at a level that won't clip the lower powered system, the dynamics of the higher powered system might seem a little more effortless because of the additional headroom. More power means louder, not less dynamic. Just because you have more power doesn't mean that you use it all (or even a fraction of it).

The difference that you hear is inherrent in the install. Not just how the components are attached to the car but the car itself. Based on what you noted as the differenc in the sound between the two systems it sounds like he has some artificial spatial processing in his system that is adding things that aren't in the recording. In that case, his setup might sound more pleasing but it isn't accurate. Also if you have time alignment that you aren't using and he is using his, the difference can be huge. Unused processing may as well not be there. Plugging your setup into his HU won't prove anything simply because all his HU processing is set to his car, not yours. It might sound OK, but it might sound like trash and neither will be an actual indication of the relative SQ of the HU but rather how it is being used. BTW, a S/N of 94dB is pretty typical and much better than that of your amps. It is way beyond audibility.