"Hi-Fi" or "PA Style"

[Blackout67]

Just wanted to see what everyones thoughts on Hi-Fi speakers (I know Hi-Fi is a HT phrase but couldn't think of what else to call them), like a normal component set that comes with a woofer and tweeter, possibly a mid-range with a subwoofer for 60hz down. Generally trades sensitivity in lieu of SQ

Or

PA Style, low MMS, high power rating, maybe 8 inch mid with a compression horn driver with a subwoofer taking up the 80-100hz down band. Usually very loud with dozens of drivers but each has a limited band of signal they take and reproduce cleanly at rated power.


Now assuming that this car is for daily driving purposes, has all the electrical upgrades done, sound deadened to the max, any amp of choosing, assuming you have your subwoofer already picked out, and DSP is set to your liking and infinite time on your hands. Which are you picking and why?

I've heard both and I like both I just want to see what the general consensus is just for the speakers.

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[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

I've heard both and I like both I just want to see what the general consensus is just for the speakers.

I prefer regular. As both styles can get loud, the regulars play better on the low end. There are times I turn off my sub stage and still get nice low bass response out the front stage. The Pro Audio can definitely get louder but I notice the sound suffers at higher volume. It sounds kind of metallic, as if the speakers are being played through a brass megaphone. At regular volume they sound good but the lack of low end is noticable.

 

[Blackout67]

I prefer regular. As both styles can get loud, the regulars play better on the low end. There are times I turn off my sub stage and still get nice low bass response out the front stage. The Pro Audio can definitely get louder but I notice the sound suffers at higher volume. It sounds kind of metallic, as if the speakers are being played through a brass megaphone. At regular volume they sound good but the lack of low end is noticable.

That's what I've noticed with most ultra sensitive speakers, especially aluminum dome tweeters. I think it's called cone breakup and stuff cones made out of rigid material like metal. Not sure exactly how it works but it destroys my ears

 

[SlugButter]

The stunt walls with pro drivers are loud as hell, but sound like ****. I would never use pro drivers in a car I plan on sitting in to listen to music. I did have a stunt wall thing in my truck for jamming music while laying basketball that I liked. The high sensitivity drivers could play loud for hours on battery power and still start the engine.

 

[dragon.breath 10+ year member]

I have two cars. Both have subwoofers. One has Focal access components and the other has Deaf Bonce arnold 6.5 inch speakers and Deaf Bonce Machete tweeters. I can honestly say that some songs sound better with the Focal’s and some sound better with the Deaf Bonce. Neither sound bad. The difference between me and most people using pro audio speakers is that I am not using pro audio tweeters. The Machete tweeters I use are regular 1 inch silk domes. IMHO most of the bad sound reputation that pro speakers get comes from the tweeters.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

I have two cars. Both have subwoofers. One has Focal access components and the other has Deaf Bonce arnold 6.5 inch speakers and Deaf Bonce Machete tweeters. I can honestly say that some songs sound better with the Focal’s and some sound better with the Deaf Bonce. Neither sound bad. The difference between me and most people using pro audio speakers is that I am not using pro audio tweeters. The Machete tweeters I use are regular 1 inch silk domes. IMHO most of the bad sound reputation that pro speakers get comes from the tweeters.

The Pro-Audio tweeters are definitely more "offensive" than the midbass drivers. Nevertheless, I'll take HiFi speakers over PA speakers any day of the week.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

That's what I've noticed with most ultra sensitive speakers, especially aluminum dome tweeters. I think it's called cone breakup and stuff cones made out of rigid material like metal. Not sure exactly how it works but it destroys my ears

It's not really close and not really a competition, they are designed different to achieve one or the others objective. PA is geared to project loudly at almost all cost, SQ can give you volume but usually not at the expensive of quality.

Inexpensive to mid priced metal domes tend to have a ringing around 10-12 khz and 20-25khz and while it may not be audible, it is there and affects the lower harmonics at 10-12 khz, This creates listening fatigue which is often perceived as harshness or shrill. Hi-end alloys such as beryllium or ceramic domes (and yes diamond domes) are pretty good at negating these characteristics and you pay for it! Metal dome x-overs will often use a attenuation filter that starts a 3 db roll off at around 10-12 khz to minimize that affect too.

That said, silks rarely get as accurate after and price for price, tend to make a cymbal sound like tish-tish, instead of tis-tis. As a drummer, a bass player, a keyboardes and cellist, I like alloy domes. If I could afford them, Beryllium or ceramic any day of the week, twice on sundays. I've recently acquired some o f the new CDT ES-1200is silk units and will be replacing my Carrozzeria alloy domes with them. They are accurate, efficient, and airy, fantastic off axis response too.

I don't care for the limited low-end that you get from virtually all the midbass PA styl drivers, not my cup of tea. Stevens drivers being one of the few exceptions.

I think you can like either type setup, or at least appreciate either type, not often you'll get one with the other, kind of like trying to make your new Corvette work in the mud, two different objectives.

 

[Blackout67]

The stunt walls with pro drivers are loud as hell, but sound like ****. I would never use pro drivers in a car I plan on sitting in to listen to music. I did have a stunt wall thing in my truck for jamming music while laying basketball that I liked. The high sensitivity drivers could play loud for hours on battery power and still start the engine.

What do you think of the sound quality when they are driven with relatively low power? Being ultra sensitive they'd still be loud but they should be able to hit lower notes without distortion and higher notes without breakup

 

[Blackout67]

I have two cars. Both have subwoofers. One has Focal access components and the other has Deaf Bonce arnold 6.5 inch speakers and Deaf Bonce Machete tweeters. I can honestly say that some songs sound better with the Focal’s and some sound better with the Deaf Bonce. Neither sound bad. The difference between me and most people using pro audio speakers is that I am not using pro audio tweeters. The Machete tweeters I use are regular 1 inch silk domes. IMHO most of the bad sound reputation that pro speakers get comes from the tweeters.

Yuppo. I had a set of NVX Coaxials with the silks domes and they sounded fantastic but lacked on the higher end so I installed some 3 inch compression tweets from DB (I think MT-102s) and even just in the headunit with every high band cut by -3 DB, they would destroy my ears to the point where I had to wire my front door speakers as "rear" to the headunit so I could fade the compression drivers down.

Made listening to metal songs with lots of symbols especially ear r*pey

 

[Blackout67]

It's not really close and not really a competition, they are designed different to achieve one or the others objective. PA is geared to project loudly at almost all cost, SQ can give you volume but usually not at the expensive of quality.

Inexpensive to mid priced metal domes tend to have a ringing around 10-12 khz and 20-25khz and while it may not be audible, it is there and affects the lower harmonics at 10-12 khz, This creates listening fatigue which is often perceived as harshness or shrill. Hi-end alloys such as beryllium or ceramic domes (and yes diamond domes) are pretty good at negating these characteristics and you pay for it! Metal dome x-overs will often use a attenuation filter that starts a 3 db roll off at around 10-12 khz to minimize that affect too.

That said, silks rarely get as accurate after and price for price, tend to make a cymbal sound like tish-tish, instead of tis-tis. As a drummer, a bass player, a keyboardes and cellist, I like alloy domes. If I could afford them, Beryllium or ceramic any day of the week, twice on sundays. I've recently acquired some o f the new CDT ES-1200is silk units and will be replacing my Carrozzeria alloy domes with them. They are accurate, efficient, and airy, fantastic off axis response too.

I don't care for the limited low-end that you get from virtually all the midbass PA styl drivers, not my cup of tea. Stevens drivers being one of the few exceptions.

I think you can like either type setup, or at least appreciate either type, not often you'll get one with the other, kind of like trying to make your new Corvette work in the mud, two different objectives.

For sure. I've always preferred silk domes over metal just because like you said they give me terrible ear fatigue since I have naturally sensitive ears anyways. I had a set of kicker CS components with I think titanium dome tweets. Destroyed my ears even with 12-20k tuned down hella and -3db on the crossover. Couldn't also been that they were off axis with the mid and pointed straight at me. The 6.5 woofer ****** too even on an amp had pretty much nothing to give below 120hz. My $80 JBL 5.25 gives more bass free air than that kicker did in a door panel

 

[SlugButter]

What do you think of the sound quality when they are driven with relatively low power? Being ultra sensitive they'd still be loud but they should be able to hit lower notes without distortion and higher notes without breakup

They can definitely have good sound quality on lower power, especially the woofers and midrange. The tweeters can be harsh sitting up close to them. They’re kinda made to play in large rooms or even open air where your ear isn’t 2 feet away from it. The tweeters with horns I don’t really understand at all in car audio, unless it’s a demo vehicle and the tweeters are in the doors normally playing with doors open.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

You will not get low end midbass extension with mid to low priced PA style drivers, at any volume, it's not a function they are designed for. That is why you'll see them listed as mids, not mid-bass or mid-woofers, they are not designed for that purpose. Even large 8's usually still have a 200-10000 range, just their niche. Loud and proud, screw the SQ if you will. Now Stevens, they make some very loud hi-end drivers that accomplish both. It's not that they distort either, they just don't reproduce music without totally coloring the sound. They are primarily focused on vocal ranges, thus their primary use in Public Address systems. I've heard some decent JBL titanium compression dome tweeters, that cost about $550 each, but they are an exception and would be brutal in a car.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

It's not really close and not really a competition, they are designed different to achieve one or the others objective. PA is geared to project loudly at almost all cost, SQ can give you volume but usually not at the expensive of quality.

Inexpensive to mid priced metal domes tend to have a ringing around 10-12 khz and 20-25khz and while it may not be audible, it is there and affects the lower harmonics at 10-12 khz, This creates listening fatigue which is often perceived as harshness or shrill. Hi-end alloys such as beryllium or ceramic domes (and yes diamond domes) are pretty good at negating these characteristics and you pay for it! Metal dome x-overs will often use a attenuation filter that starts a 3 db roll off at around 10-12 khz to minimize that affect too.

That said, silks rarely get as accurate after and price for price, tend to make a cymbal sound like tish-tish, instead of tis-tis. As a drummer, a bass player, a keyboardes and cellist, I like alloy domes. If I could afford them, Beryllium or ceramic any day of the week, twice on sundays. I've recently acquired some o f the new CDT ES-1200is silk units and will be replacing my Carrozzeria alloy domes with them. They are accurate, efficient, and airy, fantastic off axis response too.

I don't care for the limited low-end that you get from virtually all the midbass PA styl drivers, not my cup of tea. Stevens drivers being one of the few exceptions.

I think you can like either type setup, or at least appreciate either type, not often you'll get one with the other, kind of like trying to make your new Corvette work in the mud, two different objectives.

Metal domes will also often have a phase shield to tame that high end shrillness. IMHO, metal domes are more tolerable in a home theater setting than car audio. Metal domes tend to perform better off-axis compared to silk.

https://www.parts-express.com/SSP%20Applications/PartsExpress@SuiteCentric/SCA%202019.1/img/270-155_ALT_0.jpg?resizeid=104&resizeh=600&resizew=600

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Metal domes will also often have a phase shield to tame that high end shrillness. IMHO, metal domes are more tolerable in a home theater setting than car audio. Metal domes tend to perform better off-axis compared to silk.

https://www.parts-express.com/SSP%20Applications/PartsExpress@SuiteCentric/SCA%202019.1/img/270-155_ALT_0.jpg?resizeid=104&resizeh=600&resizew=600

That's what surprised me about these CDT's ES-1200is silks, off axis response is pretty outstanding!

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

I'll stick with drivers designed for car audio environments with the occasional home audio midbass or tweeter thrown in

My install is stereo integrity tm65mkiv, m3 carbons, and DD a series ceramic dome tweeters.

ATM I don't have the m3 midranges installed but the dd ceramic domes are quite flat from 2500-20khz the tm65mkiv are playing 60-2500hz and they do fine but I still have a null at 500hz and one a little higher at 1200hz which will be covered by the m3 running 400-3khz

This way I can divide each frequency range to the driver best suited for it based on the drivers response in vehicle.

Subs play 20-60hz
Front sub is 60-120hz
Midbass 60-400hz
Midrange 400-3k
Tweeters 3k-20k

My system isn't designed for all our spl and loudness though normal listening is only 115-120db with the bass end 20-150 about 12db higher