OP
12VoltInstaller 10+ year member
12VoltInstallerTools.com
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Mecp Master Installer Test= ********
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OP
12VoltInstaller 10+ year member
12VoltInstallerTools.com
- Thread Starter
- #77
Lets start this back up...any more input on this? Maybe somone that has passed it and your opinion on the content of the study guide for the test material.
gotparts90 10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
that makes me appreciate my friend who is a master installer and has all ase certs. I have ase certs but no mecp.
Fiercetimbo17 10+ year member
CarAudio.com Veteran
honestly this test is not that hard, i passed my practice exam after just skimming through the book. Mostly just dumb **** you dont need to know to even be an installer.
Heres a question from the exam, what pin number on an obd2 plug is the 12v constant? Just used that one 6 times today.
But really i do see needing to know this stuff to be considered a master but still some is a little over the top
helotaxi 5,000+ posts
Kilroy was Here
I would think that the newer stuff would be covered in the lower level tests, not the Master test. Honestly, who dose the bulk of the actual work, the basic or the master? I think that they expect you to have seen enough and be dedicated enough by the time you're testing for master to know the new stuff. What really sets the master apart is the knowledge of the stuff that he doesn't see every day.
You should see the tests for promotion in the Air Force. These aren't for a cert, these are for more rank and pay. The tests are broken down bt career field, but not by speciality. You have to know your entire carrer field, not just your actual job. For example, a flight engineer is only qualified on a single aircraft, but his test will cover in depth technical knowledge of every aircraft that has a flight engineer on board. Guys spend months studying for these tests because it directly impacts their promotion and their career, at least for you it's more just a satisfaction thing.
IMHO, an installer test without a practical isn't worth much anyway.
You should see the tests for promotion in the Air Force. These aren't for a cert, these are for more rank and pay. The tests are broken down bt career field, but not by speciality. You have to know your entire carrer field, not just your actual job. For example, a flight engineer is only qualified on a single aircraft, but his test will cover in depth technical knowledge of every aircraft that has a flight engineer on board. Guys spend months studying for these tests because it directly impacts their promotion and their career, at least for you it's more just a satisfaction thing.
IMHO, an installer test without a practical isn't worth much anyway.
Lakota 5,000+ posts
Doesn't Know $hit
I and 70% of my classmates just failed our second "Network Analysis" EE course. I know how it feels to fail something in which the ideas are often times not applicable.
ha ha ha ..... just because this forum is called caraudio.com, it is NOT where all the big names hang out. In fact, it's more like the slum of car audio forums - in fact one of the forums had to start an advanced section because of all of the "caraudio.com types" (there classification, not mine) coming in with the typical questions .... how loud will my 8 15's be ? which amp pounds the loudest ? how can I annoy people from 3 blocks away ?, etc ...
Try going here: http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csforum//showthread.php?t=64597
they may have some more pertinent answers since some of the guys actually responsible for the content of the test are on that forum/thread.
Try going here: http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csforum//showthread.php?t=64597
they may have some more pertinent answers since some of the guys actually responsible for the content of the test are on that forum/thread.
Haunz 10+ year member
Packing 4/0
It sounds like you came really close to passing and no offense is intended.... but if you don't know how to implement a zobel network or why it's usefull for any installer to know how; then I don't think you should have passed...
The bit about the ohms law 'chart' also made me shake my head in disbelief... I do not think that remembering a simple equation from highschool physics is too much to ask from a 'master' //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
My advice is to grow up, read up, and take the test again...
The bit about the ohms law 'chart' also made me shake my head in disbelief... I do not think that remembering a simple equation from highschool physics is too much to ask from a 'master' //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
My advice is to grow up, read up, and take the test again...
audioholic 5,000+ posts
not a moderator
I read most of the large audio boards, not just this one, and even I find your reply annoying. Go kiss those "big name's" asses somewhere else if that's what drives you.
helotaxi 5,000+ posts
Kilroy was Here
A lot of the "big names" think enough of themselves that we all need to hate them just for it to even out a bit. Don't get me wrong there are many very generous and gracious people that have done a lot for the word of car audio, but there are a bunch of self important wankers who think that they are the audio messiahs. Most of you know one in particular that I'm talking about. He's cited a lot for two things and because those two things proved a valid point everyone takes everything else he says as gospel even though his statements and "proofs" don't hold up to scrutiny.
Doubt that many of those people really have anything to do with the MECP. You'd have to get ahold of the VP for testing most likely. Since the MECP board is mostly made of reps from the mobile audio companies (suits mostly) I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you aren't going to find the people that you really need to talk to on forums.
You'll find in anything like this, that the goal of the test once you get to the higher levels isn't to test practical knowledge, if you've gotten to that point you should know all that stuff cold. The test and certification are discriminators. If you want to truly be recognized above your peers, you should truly stand out among your peers. Knowing the arcane, the obscure and demonstrating an actual understanding of the principles that guide the field that you want to be recognized as the best in. If that's unfair to you I don't know what to say.
Here's one for you. Application for a "master machinist" included only one skill demonstration. In an age of CAD/CAM and CNC production, the only task that the applicant was tested on was using only a file, cut a circular hole in the center of a 1/4" thick plate of steel. No one would ever really do that in production, but a "master" would know how.
Doubt that many of those people really have anything to do with the MECP. You'd have to get ahold of the VP for testing most likely. Since the MECP board is mostly made of reps from the mobile audio companies (suits mostly) I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you aren't going to find the people that you really need to talk to on forums.
You'll find in anything like this, that the goal of the test once you get to the higher levels isn't to test practical knowledge, if you've gotten to that point you should know all that stuff cold. The test and certification are discriminators. If you want to truly be recognized above your peers, you should truly stand out among your peers. Knowing the arcane, the obscure and demonstrating an actual understanding of the principles that guide the field that you want to be recognized as the best in. If that's unfair to you I don't know what to say.
Here's one for you. Application for a "master machinist" included only one skill demonstration. In an age of CAD/CAM and CNC production, the only task that the applicant was tested on was using only a file, cut a circular hole in the center of a 1/4" thick plate of steel. No one would ever really do that in production, but a "master" would know how.
actually, the big names on carsound.com WERE paid to be moderators (Richard Clark, David Navone, Ron Hephner, Mark Eldridge, etc ... ), it fell apart when carsound stop paying them and they pretty much disappeared. I think Rob and Todd do have actual input into the MECP content, try emailing them from their profile on that site.
As for kissing RC's ass, no thanks. I disagreed with him on several things, both on the forums and on the phone. They were things of personal opinion, not facts of science though.
As for kissing RC's ass, no thanks. I disagreed with him on several things, both on the forums and on the phone. They were things of personal opinion, not facts of science though.
OP
12VoltInstaller 10+ year member
12VoltInstallerTools.com
- Thread Starter
- #87
I definitely agree with the notion that I myself am not ready for passing the test as it is structured or I would have. Thats undisputed.
Your trying to insist that even though we (the car audio industry) wrote this complete new addition to our testing criteria, its the newest latest greatest info that is up to date, just fresh of the technology pipeline and these are the things you should know how to do to be considered a master of your field. Albeit the study guides name is "The M.E.C.P. Master Installer Study Guide" Then write the test based on me knowing the material now, would have been great for us to have brushed up on the 85' c.b. builders tech guide, and the do it your-selfers guide to hand built passive crossover networks, but the study guide....don't worry too much about that....when we write the "REAL" Master Test, we will ask you questions about all that silly stuff.
The Study Guide is Much like a Mac G5 (or whatever is hot at the time you read this...next week it'll be different)
The test is like a pac-man console in the diner down the street.
Both very cool in their own respects I must say.
But only one relative to an ever changing technology market to be tested on.
What the hell does Pacman know about rocking out a remote start in a chevy pickup in less than 1/2 hour while preping a deck and pair in car #2 while preparing to build a set of fiberglass kick pannels while your installing the amprack and sub enclosure you built before the chevy truck early that morning... and tuning the system in car #3 your working on before lunch while the fiberglass cures, to multi task your day to get the 10 cars you have scheduled done and not be there till 12 at night.... or about A2DP Profiles or Imprint technology and how it affects your customers listening experience when your out selling the job with the new sales guy your store just got from circuit city that knows less about the gear than the customer does...
I guess if your can read the internet and memorize it then take the master test and pass it, then there you go...your Master Certified. God forbid you actually can remember how to wire 5 wire locks without looking at the instructions or asking questions every time you do them.... I know a "Master Certified" Installer that asks that very question every time.....hmmm... but he passed the "test". I know a "top 100" installer that refuse to build boxes and did so before he was chosen as such. Tell me that aint politics at its finest...but thats a whole other post.
Its my opinion on the validity of the test and its ability to test an installer to determine wether or not his writen and applicable knowledge pass the test on a master level. What kind of a test is one you can ultimately find the answers on the internet and cheat on it....how well does that raise the barometer of an installers skill level.
Don't the martial arts require a physical test of a persons craft to determine their abilities to preform their craft?
and as for Dr. Phil.... Its unfortunate to belittle someone as to "grow up" about a situation that was brought up by that same person, for positive input and to voice an opinion backed up by personal experience and reference material, not to be personally bashed. And as for your enemies?..............
It just sounds like a quick simple stab at a cliche' band-aid comment, more closely related to a punk ass kid poking a bee hive with a stick....it really didnt take too much intelligence to do, but could definitely leave you looking pretty stupid if you hung around too long and kept it up.
To have the balls to post the topic heading to turn some heads, you may not consider a "grown up" thing to do but it got your response on here. Btw, you never did mention of you yourself were master certified and or took that test Im referring to and passed or failed.
Im also posting this to recruit people that have passed the test for input, not merely stone(d) throwers....
I was the one that let you see in my glass house...and still .....with the rocks.
Well anyway, I would really support the idea that someone offer suggestions from an application and real world stand point either passing or failing the type of input that may offer a solution to the restructuring of this ******** test.
Your trying to insist that even though we (the car audio industry) wrote this complete new addition to our testing criteria, its the newest latest greatest info that is up to date, just fresh of the technology pipeline and these are the things you should know how to do to be considered a master of your field. Albeit the study guides name is "The M.E.C.P. Master Installer Study Guide" Then write the test based on me knowing the material now, would have been great for us to have brushed up on the 85' c.b. builders tech guide, and the do it your-selfers guide to hand built passive crossover networks, but the study guide....don't worry too much about that....when we write the "REAL" Master Test, we will ask you questions about all that silly stuff.
The Study Guide is Much like a Mac G5 (or whatever is hot at the time you read this...next week it'll be different)
The test is like a pac-man console in the diner down the street.
Both very cool in their own respects I must say.
But only one relative to an ever changing technology market to be tested on.
What the hell does Pacman know about rocking out a remote start in a chevy pickup in less than 1/2 hour while preping a deck and pair in car #2 while preparing to build a set of fiberglass kick pannels while your installing the amprack and sub enclosure you built before the chevy truck early that morning... and tuning the system in car #3 your working on before lunch while the fiberglass cures, to multi task your day to get the 10 cars you have scheduled done and not be there till 12 at night.... or about A2DP Profiles or Imprint technology and how it affects your customers listening experience when your out selling the job with the new sales guy your store just got from circuit city that knows less about the gear than the customer does...
I guess if your can read the internet and memorize it then take the master test and pass it, then there you go...your Master Certified. God forbid you actually can remember how to wire 5 wire locks without looking at the instructions or asking questions every time you do them.... I know a "Master Certified" Installer that asks that very question every time.....hmmm... but he passed the "test". I know a "top 100" installer that refuse to build boxes and did so before he was chosen as such. Tell me that aint politics at its finest...but thats a whole other post.
Its my opinion on the validity of the test and its ability to test an installer to determine wether or not his writen and applicable knowledge pass the test on a master level. What kind of a test is one you can ultimately find the answers on the internet and cheat on it....how well does that raise the barometer of an installers skill level.
Don't the martial arts require a physical test of a persons craft to determine their abilities to preform their craft?
and as for Dr. Phil.... Its unfortunate to belittle someone as to "grow up" about a situation that was brought up by that same person, for positive input and to voice an opinion backed up by personal experience and reference material, not to be personally bashed. And as for your enemies?..............
It just sounds like a quick simple stab at a cliche' band-aid comment, more closely related to a punk ass kid poking a bee hive with a stick....it really didnt take too much intelligence to do, but could definitely leave you looking pretty stupid if you hung around too long and kept it up.
To have the balls to post the topic heading to turn some heads, you may not consider a "grown up" thing to do but it got your response on here. Btw, you never did mention of you yourself were master certified and or took that test Im referring to and passed or failed.
Im also posting this to recruit people that have passed the test for input, not merely stone(d) throwers....
I was the one that let you see in my glass house...and still .....with the rocks.
Well anyway, I would really support the idea that someone offer suggestions from an application and real world stand point either passing or failing the type of input that may offer a solution to the restructuring of this ******** test.
OP
12VoltInstaller 10+ year member
12VoltInstallerTools.com
- Thread Starter
- #88
That isnt even close to an answer to this thread....thanks for scanning tho....
the revision of the test was done late 2007. This was a reply to a different person with a different question about it on a different forum. The same test that was taken ........IS the REVISION that he is refering to........is what was taken....and is STILL BS.
And using a Zobel in an every day Car Audio Shop....if you even mention it to a customer...they will look at you with the funniest look.
That information is used for Speaker and X-over Engineers....not the professionals that use the end products and implement them. Yes...fine...understand them to their finest detail....be able to explain to the customer what its used for....in lay mens terms....whatch their faces wrinkle up...shake their heads and say...I dont understand a word you just said....but anyway....how do these sound....can you get them to me any cheaper? THAT MY FRIENDS>>>>IS REAL CAR AUDIO on a daily basis.
We use the technology now....we understand what it does....we dont need to understand how to implement it on a daily basis or even need to know the formula on how to decode the process. IT IS IRRELEVANT. The majority of MASTER installers....wont tell their customer...oh yeah...those big beautiful crossovers that your $2,000 set of Brand New speakers you just purchased....ya Im gonna throw those in a box under my bench.....we are going to build you some kick ass Zobel Networks instead. Check out these awesome breadboards I just got from the Rat Shack...ya its gonna be great. BUUUUUULLLLLLLL SHHHHIIIIIT! Keep spouting off with your little bit of un-applied knowledge about how important it is to know something about nothing....you like keeping useless knowledge in your head that makes you 0 money...or a very big difference in your end result? I agree....me either. Go read the dictionary.... Im sure you'll use one of the 5 dollar words in there sometime in your career.
Ok Mr Customer....we can amplify...bi amplify or even go as far as to run your speakers active.......each step you make...done correctly will exponentially make your speakers and audio experience even that much better. This will be the conversation.... not the other. But screw it....we will still test you on it...cuz we need it back in the 80s....why wont we still?
Is anyone getting the point? The revision of the test...... Not a fair assessment of the up to date installers Skill Set.
If a dude walked in and said...yeah...I can build you a Zobel Network right now....I would either be suspicious on how ridiculously slow he is at installing....or start asking questions and ask him to explain to me where in the last 5 years he has found a way to implement this and it make him more money and have all his customers come out of the wood work to see him.........
That would be an interesting conversation.
the revision of the test was done late 2007. This was a reply to a different person with a different question about it on a different forum. The same test that was taken ........IS the REVISION that he is refering to........is what was taken....and is STILL BS.
And using a Zobel in an every day Car Audio Shop....if you even mention it to a customer...they will look at you with the funniest look.
That information is used for Speaker and X-over Engineers....not the professionals that use the end products and implement them. Yes...fine...understand them to their finest detail....be able to explain to the customer what its used for....in lay mens terms....whatch their faces wrinkle up...shake their heads and say...I dont understand a word you just said....but anyway....how do these sound....can you get them to me any cheaper? THAT MY FRIENDS>>>>IS REAL CAR AUDIO on a daily basis.
We use the technology now....we understand what it does....we dont need to understand how to implement it on a daily basis or even need to know the formula on how to decode the process. IT IS IRRELEVANT. The majority of MASTER installers....wont tell their customer...oh yeah...those big beautiful crossovers that your $2,000 set of Brand New speakers you just purchased....ya Im gonna throw those in a box under my bench.....we are going to build you some kick ass Zobel Networks instead. Check out these awesome breadboards I just got from the Rat Shack...ya its gonna be great. BUUUUUULLLLLLLL SHHHHIIIIIT! Keep spouting off with your little bit of un-applied knowledge about how important it is to know something about nothing....you like keeping useless knowledge in your head that makes you 0 money...or a very big difference in your end result? I agree....me either. Go read the dictionary.... Im sure you'll use one of the 5 dollar words in there sometime in your career.
Ok Mr Customer....we can amplify...bi amplify or even go as far as to run your speakers active.......each step you make...done correctly will exponentially make your speakers and audio experience even that much better. This will be the conversation.... not the other. But screw it....we will still test you on it...cuz we need it back in the 80s....why wont we still?
Is anyone getting the point? The revision of the test...... Not a fair assessment of the up to date installers Skill Set.
If a dude walked in and said...yeah...I can build you a Zobel Network right now....I would either be suspicious on how ridiculously slow he is at installing....or start asking questions and ask him to explain to me where in the last 5 years he has found a way to implement this and it make him more money and have all his customers come out of the wood work to see him.........
That would be an interesting conversation.
Im an installer... and I built and used 4 zobels daily //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif
just kidding
I sorta agree with you.
99% of my customers want me to tell them what sounds good and costs the least, do the work and get them out of there.
90% of my customers want something ridiculously simple, like to have their GPS hardwired, cd-player installed or what have you
9% of them even delve into subs/amps/speakers
and 1% come in knowing how everything works and havign a good conversation about audio
****, half of my customers arent even FOR CAR AUDIO. And the ones that are wouldnt wait around while I hand build a crossover.
It would take that one in a million super interested audiophile customer to even give it a thought
just kidding
I sorta agree with you.
99% of my customers want me to tell them what sounds good and costs the least, do the work and get them out of there.
90% of my customers want something ridiculously simple, like to have their GPS hardwired, cd-player installed or what have you
9% of them even delve into subs/amps/speakers
and 1% come in knowing how everything works and havign a good conversation about audio
****, half of my customers arent even FOR CAR AUDIO. And the ones that are wouldnt wait around while I hand build a crossover.
It would take that one in a million super interested audiophile customer to even give it a thought
Nophix
Junior Member
No kidding!! I got MECP years ago, and I'm a current MCSE and working on CCNA. I can take the test anytime I want and know I'll fly through it, but it is god awful rediculous.
Btw, wait until you look into CCIE.
FWIW, I'm looking to get out of IT and back into car audio. The market and pay is about the same where I'm at. The difference is, all IT here is contract work. Car audio I'll probably do on my own. I used to own a store a while back.
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