Too Much Juice?

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Orion XTRPRO124 12" 1000W Dual XTR Pro Series Component Subwoofer Driver at Onlinecarstereo.com

Said sub is supposed to handle 500 rms 1000 peak. Rms is most important than peak power.

And your prob clipping the **** out of subs....and your buddy's sub too which would explain the blown drivers and tinsel leads/over powering them.

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

Orion XTRPRO124 12" 1000W Dual XTR Pro Series Component Subwoofer Driver at Onlinecarstereo.com
Said sub is supposed to handle 500 rms 1000 peak. Rms is most important than peak power.

I thought that at first too, but no. The new version is the xtr pro 1xxD. It is rated for a lot more power than the prior version.

 

[MercerIslandBas]

Thank you for the information. I will most definitely look into another shop to have it done properly. Thankfully Orion was kind enough to send out a replacement re-cone kit under warranty.

 

[MercerIslandBas]

Apparently you don't understand how German's build cards, their wiring is quite robust to begin with. With a 12-15 foot run I'm sure what they supplied was more than adequate. I think this is a clipping issue and not anything else.

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

Where do you have the sub amp grounded? Same size wire for power/gnd? Are you using 4 gauge CCA or OFC? I know my powerbass amp, after getting it 4 gauge OFC instead of CCA, sounded much much better. Don't underestimate the crappiness of most 4 gauge CCA, it is terrible. Mine would corrode and melt fuse blocks due to huge spikes in resistance from where the corrosion started, this was on a 1000w RMS amp, yours is rated a little higher.

clipping is the easiest thing to blame... it could be your issue, but you can't say it is for sure until you ensure your amplifier is happy with the signal it's receiving, power/gnd, and the speaker wiring is proper. that amp will blow that sub, 1kw rms is a lot of power for one sub, even if the thing is rated for 1250w RMS, you're running right next to its max RMS power so you need to be conservative with the gain.

 

[r0llinlacs 10+ year member]

It doesn't matter if you're clipping the signal or not, if you over power a sub, it will blow. Setting the gains "correctly" won't help as the possibility of overpowering is always there as music is always different. No two songs are the same. If you're overpowering a sub, even with "correct" gains, you still have to be extremely careful. You should never ever overpower a sub unless you know exactly what you're doing, and know exactly what you're listening to. What I'm saying is it's impossible to set the gain to a test tone or to a certain song, and then expect everything else to be exactly the same. Everything is recorded different. You can set the gains to one song, then the very next song with the same gains could blow the **** out of the sub because it was recorded differently. The only way to safely overpower a sub is to "idiot proof" the settings by setting the gains with everything (volume/bass/bass boost/loudness) cranked up so that the signal can never be overgained, which results in crap sounding mids/highs and/or low bass output from the sub.

I'm pretty sure the Orion XTR subs are very overrated, so are the cheap Pioneer champion subs. The GM-D9601 will put out 1200rms, never go by the maximum rating. The Pioneer champion subs I believe are around 250rms, orion XTR PRO's are 600rms, so it's no wonder they fried.

The people here will make you think you can put a 5k amp on a 250rms sub if you just "set the gains correct" but it is simply wishful thinking and doesn't work in practice. I've seen it happen 3948759038476984769842 times, **** will not and does not last because eventually you'll play a song with higher bass levels, or you crank the volume one notch too far, or somebody turns up the bass, and fries your ****. It's not always distortion or user error. The biggest error is installer error by improperly matching an amp to a sub.

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

Setting the gains "correctly" won't help as the possibility of overpowering is always there as music is always different. No two songs are the same. If you're overpowering a sub, even with "correct" gains, you still have to be extremely careful. You should never ever overpower a sub unless you know exactly what you're doing, and know exactly what you're listening to. What I'm saying is it's impossible to set the gain to a test tone or to a certain song, and then expect everything else to be exactly the same. Everything is recorded different.

All that rant and you don't even understand what a 0db tone is.

Nothing can be recorded at a higher level than 0db. That is why setting the gain with a 0db signal GUARANTEES the amp won't clip. It's also why it is commonly suggested to set the gain with a -3db tone allowing for minor clipping and to account for recording levels below 0db (which almost all are).

Setting an amp at 1000w using a 0db tone guarantees the average power at full volume will be less than 500, and probably much less - due to crest factor.

We are talking about a 1200w amp and a (maybe over-rated) 1250w sub (new xtr pro's are not 500-600w). Overpowering is NOT an issue if the level settings are adjusted correctly.

Overpowering in general isn't a problem for someone who knows how to adjust an amp.

 

[r0llinlacs 10+ year member]

All that rant and you don't even understand what a 0db tone is.Nothing can be recorded at a higher level than 0db. That is why setting the gain with a 0db signal GUARANTEES the amp won't clip. It's also why it is commonly suggested to set the gain with a -3db tone allowing for minor clipping and to account for recording levels below 0db (which almost all are).

Setting an amp at 1000w using a 0db tone guarantees the average power at full volume will be less than 500, and probably much less - due to crest factor.

We are talking about a 1200w amp and a (maybe over-rated) 1250w sub (new xtr pro's are not 500-600w). Overpowering is NOT an issue if the level settings are adjusted correctly.

Overpowering in general isn't a problem for someone who knows how to adjust an amp.

Setting with a 0db test tone or any test tone for that matter, doesn't matter because the volume knob is not the only determining factor in output voltage/clipping. Somebody turns up the bass? There goes your tune. Somebody plays a "bass boosted" song? There goes your tune. Oh was that a crackle/pop at the beginning of the song? There goes your tune. Oh, you switched sources from CD to radio? There goes your tune. Somebody turns the volume past the clipping point? There goes your tune. You have a bass-knob installed? There goes your tune. See what I mean? It's NEVER going to be 100% consistent. Setting gains by test tone results in low output on certain types of music and mediocre to good output on others. This is why bass knobs were invented, because all media is different and one setting does not fit all media.

 

[garychoffmann 10+ year member]

It's ok to say you don't understand

 

[r0llinlacs 10+ year member]

It's ok to say you don't understand

I understand perfectly. It's okay to say you can't comprehend what I'm saying.

 

[garychoffmann 10+ year member]

Lol, I comprehend you just fine. You seem to have a hard time with comprehension. If you set correctly with a test tone and your max settings, you can't go beyond that point. I'll explain it to you like this. You have a chain holding your dog. You don't want your dog to go past a certain point so you set the chain so the dog can't go past that length. The dog walks over to the point and can't go any further. He runs to that point but can't go any further. He tries to jump but can't go any further. He tries crawling but can't get any further. You put a different dog on the chain and guess what? It can't get past the max length you allow.....

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

I understand perfectly.

You obviously do not.

 

[r0llinlacs 10+ year member]

You obviously do not.

Your argument means absolutely jack sh1t without telling me how I'm wrong. Go ahead and try. None of you grasp the concept of the signal path very well at all. Gain is one ******* setting out of MANY variables, INCLUDING YOUR MUSIC.

Also none of you grasp the concept of debate AT ALL. It's just "you're wrong, I'm right" and that's it? You're all ******* fools.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

Your argument means absolutely jack sh1t without telling me how I'm wrong. Go ahead and try. None of you grasp the concept of the signal path very well at all. Gain is one ******* setting out of MANY variables, INCLUDING YOUR MUSIC.
Also none of you grasp the concept of debate AT ALL. It's just "you're wrong, I'm right" and that's it? You're all ******* fools.

Yep. I set my gains with a scope at 0db.

Guess what? My music is not recorded above 0db.

Is yours //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

It is you that does not grasp the concept of setting gains. If you set it with a 0db tone, you should not be clipping if your original signal was clean. Most music is recorded much lower than that..

I guess you wouldn't know though. You don't have to set gain's when you're running off "deck power" //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[r0llinlacs 10+ year member]

Yep. I set my gains with a scope at 0db.
Guess what? My music is not recorded above 0db.

Is yours //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

It is you that does not grasp the concept of setting gains. If you set it with a 0db tone, you should not be clipping if your original signal was clean. Most music is recorded much lower than that..

I guess you wouldn't know though. You don't have to set gain's when you're running off "deck power" //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

You're retarded man. Do you have Sony Sound Forge Pro 11? Have you made, edited, converted, resampled, etc. anything at all in your lifetime? Because I guarantee over half the music you listen to is distorting and you don't even know it. A vast majority of music out there is filled with 0db peaks AND clipping. Because guess what? Unlike what you heard from somebody who has no idea what they're talking about, most music isn't recorded at 0db but most modern music IS normalized to 0db. Unless you MADE your mp3's, flacs, wavs or whatever you listen to from a CD by yourself and checked every single file by itself for clipping, you don't know ****. Shut the **** up kid.

And I have an amp waiting to be installed which will be bi-amped and set with the 80-prs 3-way network installed and set by me so stfu you snarky little *****.

And don't make me bust out the program and start taking screenshots to prove your *** wrong, I already spent too much time on you.