What should i buy?

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

No feathers ruffled. Just want to hear some proof. What do you mean by went public. They have been and always will be public. Do you mean since they started selling product at BB. Parts express carries Focal. Does that mean Focal *****. Far from it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But the B.S. flag still stands. And anyone who thinks they can tell the difference drop an email to Richard Clark from autosound a2000rich@aol.com ask him for the amp challenge rules. If you can tell the difference he will give you $10,000 cash. He has had this offer on the table for several years. And everyone who has tried has looked rather foolish in the end. If you feel you can really hear the difference in the two previous amps. There is $10,000 waiting for you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Unregistered]

Here are some hopefully helpful tips:

Stick with a good mono class d power amp,preferably ohm rated specifically for your configuration.(ie-mmats, u.s. amps)

-Don't piss away your money on any caps.- Renforce grounding point of alternator to unibody with at least 4 guage wire, and keep all connections solid and clean.

If you like to play your system with your engine off, mount

a 200 amp( or higher) rated solenoid wired to your ignition at your positive battery feed, and install a second battery in your trunk .(this will allow for play without dead main battery headaches).As far as your sub setup, I would recommend putting your sub in a rearward facing slot ported box.(I would remove any insulation between cabin and trunk as well)

I have a set up very similar to what you are going for in my

lincoln coupe.I have four brama 1500w dvcsubs in 2.5 cubic foot single chamber, ported, isobaric clamshell configuration

running off four harrison 1600w class d amps,and it humps(148.7db) and is still nice and clean.(box is everything ,sub and amp type come 2nd). You can check out these products on ampman.com.(Figure about 950$ for 1sub and amp).

Opinions don't mean **** .Read and educate yourself

on the products you like(Focal-good choice)and try to hear something play before you buy.My last system was 2001 fosgate gear, (3-12", and 2-15" sealed hx2, 2-bd1000 amps)

and even then I was out there crushin these ****in "experts"

systems that you are asking opinions of.So **** ya'll *******.

(Just kidding).By the way, a higher output alternator might

be availible in a step up model of that sedan(ie- order or find higher output alternator from junk yard for core and pick up a fresh one with trade in for a couple hundred bucks.) if it has the same engine with more factory electronics and such.Then you should be able to fire up that bd1500 and spare battery or whatever you want for cheap.(Or have factory one rewound).

Good luck.

 

[zane 10+ year member]

Originally posted by ramos No feathers ruffled. Just want to hear some proof. What do you mean by went public. They have been and always will be public. Do you mean since they started selling product at BB. Parts express carries Focal. Does that mean Focal *****. Far from it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But the B.S. flag still stands. And anyone who thinks they can tell the difference drop an email to Richard Clark from autosound a2000rich@aol.com ask him for the amp challenge rules. If you can tell the difference he will give you $10,000 cash. He has had this offer on the table for several years. And everyone who has tried has looked rather foolish in the end. If you feel you can really hear the difference in the two previous amps. There is $10,000 waiting for you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Tweet Tweet!

RC's challenge is legit and still 100% un-met.

He and I have had several- at length discussions about this matter, and the rules of the challenge where clearly stated.

So long as this does not turn into an "I can hear the difference between wiring discussion," I think we can let this drop.....

Point is - the challenge is out there- has been for quite a while; the challenge still remains.

The only issue with the newer fosgate amps is the issue of the circuitry in some of thier amps not being able to handle the lower impedence's that thier prior models could.

Either way- in a Class D environment- this issue levels out and rather becomes a moot point.

Take it easy,

-zane

 

[no1beefcake]

The bd series amps from Rockford Fosgate have absolutely NO heating problems. You can work them like slaves all day, and they won't even get warm. I have a bd500.1, and I have two friends with bd1000.1s, and one friend that just bought a bd1500 to use on 3 Solobaric L7 15" subs. They all have been great, and don't even get WARM, much less get hot. I highly recommend. Everyone's been dogging Punch lately though. I don't know what's up with that...

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

Originally posted by zane  

Either way- in a Class D environment- this issue levels out and rather becomes a moot point.

 

Take it easy,

-zane

My point exactly //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Corsica 5,000+ posts]

Zane Email me BobCatKD@Aol.com and explain how this 10,000 dollar challeng works. I'd like to know. It just sounds kinda fun to try/see someone do.

Jordan

 

[zane 10+ year member]

OK- for the millions that have failed this test- and for those that do not know much about it. Below are the actual Rules to Richard Clarks Amp Challenge contest.

I will have to break this into 2 posts as the VB Board will not let this lengthy of a single post.

Have a look see below---->

-zane

 

[zane 10+ year member]

THE $10,000 AMPLIFIER CHALLENGE RULES {April 21, 2000}

By Richard Clark

There is no question that all amps are not the same. It is very easy to measure large differences in the performance of amplifiers. This is true in nearly every known specification, including power, noise, distortion, etc. My experience has led me to believe that even though these differences can be easily measured, hearing those differences may not be so easy. Given the relatively small magnitude of performance differences, there is a giant step between amplifier performance and our ability to hear performance differences.

It is claimed by designers, manufacturers and especially salespersons that differences in amplifiers are clearly audible. Reasons include "obvious" advantages of one type of circuit topology over another. For example, it is claimed that certain designs have a smoother midrange response whereas other amplifiers exhibit tighter bass. Tube fanatics claim that tube amplifiers have that "warm" sound we all need in our systems.

Such descriptive terms are certainly subject to personal interpretation. It is not my intention to determine if one particular amplifier is better than another amplifier. Differences in the quality of the discrete components and constructions are more appropriate for settling the issue of "good - better - best." The sole purpose of my amplifier challenge is to determine if the differences in amplifiers are audible.

What differences are Audible?

I believe the perceived differences in amplifiers are all due to various factors that can be explained with basic physics and elementary psyco-acoustics. For instance, if two amplifiers are not carefully matched in volume, and one amp is slightly louder than the other, then it would be a simple matter to detect such a difference. In such an example it is important to understand that it is not the circuit topology, quality of the component, design excellence, or superb marketing and packaging that caused the noticeable difference - it was an error in the test setup! It is my present belief that as long as a modern amplifier is operated within its linear range (below overload), the differences between amps are inaudible to the human ear.

Comparing Amps

The idea here is for a test subject to scientifically demonstrate his/her ability to hear differences in amplifiers. It is our job to carefully match the amps so that we are comparing "apples to apples" instead of "oranges to frogs." This means that we sure wouldn't want to compare one amplifier that had + 12 dB of high frequency boost against another amplifier that was adjusted for + 12 dB of bass boost. Such a test would be easy to pass - even on identical amplifiers with consecutive serial numbers.

For our comparison test, we aren't concerned with which amplifier sounds best to the test subject. We only require that the listener be able to identify each amplifier when it is powering the speakers. Since many folks seem to believe that amplifiers have some kind of distinctive sonic character, this test should be easy to pass. Right? After all, we're talking about comparing those harsh sounding, high distortion, squeaky "widget As" to those warm sounding, smooth, bass hog "widget Bs."

Now pay particular attention to the following sections. Since we're looking for differences in amplifiers, and we already know that those differences are probably going to be very, very small, it is important that the parameters under our control be carefully adjusted so as to be equal as possible. This means that we must be cognizant of differences we might unknowingly introduce between amp A and amp B. They must be adjusted as identical as possible. We already mentioned the importance of volume. The same goes for the L and R balance. It sure would be easy to choose an amplifier that exhibited left side bias over a balanced amp. Right?

Well, in order to keep this amplifier comparison test fair, there are a few other parameters that must be considered. I'll list them all in the following section.

Amplifier Comparison Test Conditions

1. Amplifier gain controls - of both channels - are matched to within +- .05 dB.

2. Speaker wires on both amps are properly wired with respect to polarity. (+ and -)

3. That neither amp has signal phase inversion. If so correction will be made in #2 above.

4. That neither amp is loaded beyond its rated impedance.

5. That all amplifiers with signal processors have those circuits bypassed. This includes bass boost circuits, filters, etc. If frequency tailoring circuits cannot be completely bypassed an equalizer will be inserted in the signal path of one (only one and the listener can decide which) of the amps to compensate for the difference. Compensation will also be made for input and output loading that affects frequency response. Since we are only listening for differences in the sonic signature of circuit topology, the addition of an EQ in one signal path only should make the test even easier.

6. That neither amp exhibits excessive noise (including RFI).

7. That each amp can be properly driven by the test setup. Not normally a problem but it is theoretically a problem.

8. That the L and R channels are not reversed in one amp.

9. That neither amp has excessive physical noise or other indicators that can be observed by the listener.

10. That neither amp has DC OFFSET that causes audible pops when its output is switched.

11. That the channel separation of all amps in the test is at least 30 dB from 20Hz to 20kHz.

Page 1 of 2

Continued Below--->

 

[zane 10+ year member]

Ok, here's the rest--->

Richard Clark Amp Challenge-Cont'd....

In addition to these requirements the test will be conducted according to the following rules.

Amplifier Test Comparison Rules

1. To make things easy we would prefer to use high quality home type loudspeakers for the test. If our speakers are not acceptable, the listener can provide any commercially available speaker system as long as it uses dynamic drivers. The actual measured impedance cannot exceed the rated load impedance of the amplifiers tested. If, however, the tester would like to perform the test in a car, we will use a car, however, it will have to be provided by the test subject. For practicality we will have to limit the number of amplifier channels to four or less.

2. Amplifiers will be powered from the same power supply at a nominal 14 volts DC. (any voltage is OK as long as it is the same for both amps)

3. The test can be conducted at any volume desired; however, the amps will not be allowed to clip. In other words, listening volume can not exceed the power capacity of the smallest amp of the pair being tested. (power capacity will be defined as clipping or 2%THD 20Hz to 10kHz, whichever is less)

4. No test signals can be used - only commercially available music.

5. The listener can compare two amps at a time for as long as desired. For practical reasons we would like to keep this at least no more than a few hours. A test session will consist of 12 A/B sequences. Passing the test will require a positive identification of each amp for all 12 sequences. Remember, guessing will get you about 6 out of 12. If the differences are so great, and a subject can really hear the difference, then he/she should be able to do so for all 12 sequences.

6. To win the $10,000.00, the listener must pass two complete sessions of 12 comparisons. Passing the test means 24 correct responses.* The amp of choice can be compared to the same or a different amp in each session - challengers choice. We have many amplifiers in our demo inventory such as, but not limited to, Alpine, Rockford, Kicker, Phoenix Gold, Precision Power, MTX, Adcom, Kenwood, Pioneer, Sony, etc. You can pick any of them or bring your own.

7. All amps must be brand name, standard production, linear voltage amplifiers. This does not exclude high current amps. Amps can not be modified and must meet factory specs. They must be "car audio amplifiers designed to be powered from a car's electrical system."

8. Failure of an amp (this includes thermal shutdown) during the test will require that the test be repeated after repair or replacement or cooling of the amp. This means that the entire test session will have to be repeated.

9. The amps will not be overloaded during the session from either a voltage or current requirement.

10. To save time the listener will have to pass a quick 8 trial session to qualify for the extended 2 session test for the money prize. Any 2 amps can be used for this test. Passing this qualifying test will require at least 6 out of 8 correct answers.

11. The amplifier power up and/or power down sequence will not be acceptable for comparison. (The turn on/off noises of some amplifiers would give it away.)

12. Although anyone is welcome to take the test, only subjects employed in the car audio industry or Car Sound subscribers are eligible for the $10,000.00 prize.

13. Cost to take the test is $100.00. $300.00 for people representing companies. Payable in advance, scheduled appointments only. Done correctly the test takes several hours and I don't have the time if you aren't serious.

* Twelve correct responses in a row is certainly a lot of correct listening but $10,000 is also a lot of money for a few hours of easy listening. The way people describe the differences is that they are like night and day. I would certainly not have any trouble choosing between an apple and an orange 12 times in a row. When compared fairly I believe the differences in amps are much too small to audibly detect and certainly too small to pay large sums of extra money for. If I am wrong someone should be able to carefully take this test and win my money. Even if I am right, if enough people take the test eventually someone will take my money due to random chance. This is the reason for the large sample requirement. If you feel that you can easily pass this test but 12 sequences will give you "listening fatigue" I am willing to modify the requirements. Since the way it is being offered is a challenge and only my money is at risk I am willing to let a confident challenger "put his money where his ears are". If we are willing to make this a bet instead of a challenge, I am willing to drop 1 sequence for every thousand dollars put up by the challenger against my money. This would mean:

____My___________ _ _Your________Trails Required to win__

$10,000 to $0 = 12 Tries

$9,000 to $1,000 = 11 Tries

$8,000 to $2,000 = 10 Tries

$7,000 to $3,000 = 9 Tries

$6,000 to $4,000 = 8 Tries

$5,000 to $5,000 = 7 Tries

$4,000 to $6,000 = 6 Tries

I will not do the test with less than 6 trails. It would be statistically meaningless and reduce the challenge to mere gambling.

-RC

There- are you happy now??? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

-zane

 

[Unregistered]

For subs two Alpine type R 12's

Power them with the Alpine MRV-T757 it gives each sub 225w

For the componets get another set of perfects for the rear power them with the MRV-T407 it's a 2 channel amp from alpine giving each speaker 120w.

Get another MRV-T407 for your other set of perfects.

Alpine type R subs are great they hit hard and have good sq alpine also makes good amps but the Perfects are PERFECT

 

[JuggaloD]

straight up if you got 5k for your system get yourself some mtx rfls goin down and ****, your dead grandma will be feelin those things